Shutter Count on New M11

[thedwp]

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I know Leica doesn't allow end users to get an actual shutter actuation so there's no way to know. You can reset the file count when reseting the camera....

With that a said, I recently bought a brand new Q2 and the files started at L.......01. I just received my M11 yesterday and noticed the first shot was over 750. Would that indicate the camera was used before? 

In addition, some of my files are coming out upside down straight out of the camera. I've never experienced with with any Leica model I've ever owned. 

Any thoughts on the file count?

thx in advance.

[Stef63]

Did you format the memory card prior to the first image capture?

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[thedwp]

Yes, I formatted before I took the first shot.

[Stef63]

If my memory is correct I vaguely remember having read somewhere on this forum that Leica takes test shots for QC reasons.  But over 750 is definitely way more than what is normal.  And you would expect Leica to reset the counter before shipping.

Was the box sealed before you opened it?  Was the battery plastic cover sealed?  Was the battery charged?  What I’ve read here in the M11 section is that it is most common that the camera comes with a completely drained battery. 

[adan]

3 minutes ago, Stef63 said:

And you would expect Leica to reset the counter before shipping.

True or false - Leica workers are super-human and never make mistakes.

...................

1) Obviously Leica tests each and every camera. Normally they DO reset the count to zero after the testing is complete.

2) Leica does not break out a fresh, sterile, unused SD card to test every camera - they re-use the same one for many, many cameras. So their testing cards may run up a high number of "counts."

3) Digital Leicas  - to avoid ever producing duplicate file names (which might end up overwriting some customer's precious picture), always increment the file number to be one more than any existing number on an inserted SD card.

4) EVEN IF THAT CARD IS FORMATTED IN THE NEW CAMERA, the formatting process will pick up the numbering of any image already on the card - and reset the camera count to that number +1.

5) So either - avoid reusing SD cards used in previous Leica cameras altogether; Buy a new set for your new camera.

Or - format the cards completely via computer to erase any numbered images and "sterilize" them, and then manually change the name of the LEICA folder back to 100, before putting the card in the new camera.

In short - never swap cards around between different Leica cameras, without a complete format outside the camera to be sure there are no numbered files/images left to contaminate the new camera's numbering.

See also (has hints on how to re-zero the folders and file names):

 

[Al Brown]

There is surely a service menu on the M11 with exact shutter count displayed (just like on M10, see image below), it is one of Wetzlar's best kept secrets apparently.

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[mrmalo]

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@Al Brown Where is the service menu? I can't find it on the M11.

I was wondering how the "Shutter Counter" count might work on the M11, considering the shutter is always open. Just switching the camera on opens the shutter.

[Al Brown]

37 minutes ago, mrmalo said:

@Al Brown Where is the service menu? I can't find it on the M11.

I was wondering how the "Shutter Counter" count might work on the M11, considering the shutter is always open. Just switching the camera on opens the shutter.

The Menu is hidden and only a handful of servicemen and women know how to recall it 😎. Aparrently you can mess up tons of stuff, so they keep the shortcut sequence away from end users.
The shutter count should work just like it does on M10 with live view - each opening of the shutter is one count and each shot is another. It is my educated guess that it should count differently for electronic shutter or have a separate counter. Somebody with close ties to Wetzlar will surely promptly get to the bottom of this.

[thedwp]

Any thoughts on the upside down images coming straight out of the camera? I had a run of 6 in a row today. 
 

of course I will be talking to Leica about this, Just curious if anyone has experienced this before. 

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, Al Brown said:

There is surely a service menu on the M11 with exact shutter count displayed (just like on M10, see image below), it is one of Wetzlar's best kept secrets apparently.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

are you sure that this is a screen from cameras prior to M10? I recall Leica saying that there is no way the can give an accurate count  on m10

[Al Brown]

2 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

are you sure that this is a screen from cameras prior to M10? I recall Leica saying that there is no way the can give an accurate count  on m10

This is a screen from M10-P built in 2019. Do you really think Leica would drop this option for internal use that was there since M8 15 years later?

[digitalfx]

As @adan pointed out you need to fully format a previously used card in a Computer to reset the count. Formatting in camera doesnt reset the numbering for obvious reasons.

 

Upside down images...this is a first. DNG? Are they upside down when viewed in camera?

 

 

[Photoworks]

1 minute ago, digitalfx said:

As @adan pointed out you need to fully format a previously used card in a Computer to reset the count. Formatting in camera doesnt reset the numbering for obvious reasons.

 

that would be only to reset the image numbering.. nothing to do with shutter counter .

you can always reset numbering in camera settings > Reset Image Numbering

[digitalfx]

Just now, Photoworks said:

that would be only to reset the image numbering.. nothing to do with shutter counter .

you can always reset numbering in camera settings > Reset Image Numbering

But his original question/assumption is that the image numbering = shutter count. It does not

User cant view shutter count

[Jeffry Abt]

5 hours ago, Al Brown said:

The Menu is hidden and only a handful of servicemen and women know how to recall it 😎. Aparrently you can mess up tons of stuff, so they keep the shortcut sequence away from end users.
The shutter count should work just like it does on M10 with live view - each opening of the shutter is one count and each shot is another. It is my educated guess that it should count differently for electronic shutter or have a separate counter. Somebody with close ties to Wetzlar will surely promptly get to the bottom of this.

I love secrets…but they do not remain secrets for long.😀

[digitalfx]

4 minutes ago, Jeffry Abt said:

I love secrets…but they do not remain secrets for long.😀

as far as I remember it was never discovered in the M10 series...

[Alexander-HH]

I found a software called "Leica Sync" which shows the shutter count for M10(P) cameras: https://transienteye.com/software/

[adan]

1) as to upside-down images. Could be a faulty or non-compliant SD card. Could be the tilt-sensor (used to show verticals as verticals, or drive the live-view "level") is wacky in some way - I am getting a very occasional "horizontal vertical" now with one of my 5-year-old M10s.

Although usually the first will simply scramble or slice-and-dice the images like a jig-saw puzzle, and I've never seen the second actually invert pictures 180°.

(speaking of which, does the "stock" M11 have that level function?)

2) as to the secret menu, on some Leica-made digitals it is accessed via the four-way control pad.

Push the center (info/set) button, and then some sequence of the direction arrows, like (just for example)  <<<<, >>, ^^^, vv - a "combination lock" of sorts.

But with the M11's new combined info/menu touchscreen, that may have changed also.

Edited January 27, 2022 by adan

[digitalfx]

2 hours ago, Alexander-HH said:

I found a software called "Leica Sync" which shows the shutter count for M10(P) cameras: https://transienteye.com/software/

Interesting...somewhat works wifi only (no USB-C)...but shutter count shows 0 on M11

 

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[Gobert]

9 hours ago, adan said:

True or false - Leica workers are super-human and never make mistakes.

...................

1) Obviously Leica tests each and every camera. Normally they DO reset the count to zero after the testing is complete.

2) Leica does not break out a fresh, sterile, unused SD card to test every camera - they re-use the same one for many, many cameras. So their testing cards may run up a high number of "counts."

3) Digital Leicas  - to avoid ever producing duplicate file names (which might end up overwriting some customer's precious picture), always increment the file number to be one more than any existing number on an inserted SD card.

4) EVEN IF THAT CARD IS FORMATTED IN THE NEW CAMERA, the formatting process will pick up the numbering of any image already on the card - and reset the camera count to that number +1.

5) So either - avoid reusing SD cards used in previous Leica cameras altogether; Buy a new set for your new camera.

Or - format the cards completely via computer to erase any numbered images and "sterilize" them, and then manually change the name of the LEICA folder back to 100, before putting the card in the new camera.

In short - never swap cards around between different Leica cameras, without a complete format outside the camera to be sure there are no numbered files/images left to contaminate the new camera's numbering.

See also (has hints on how to re-zero the folders and file names):

 

I have two M bodies and several cards. I’m always mixing them up. So I always format them, but always in de camera, not in the computer. I’ve never had trouble with doing it this way.