M10 D Basic Question

[MikeMyers]

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I have a question about the Leica M10 D - I believe this is a normal Leica M10 in most ways, but without the rear screen on the back.

I know that it's not possible to review images, and there can't be any "live view" (unless one buys a Visoflex?).

So, how does one set up the camera, date, time, etc.  Are the menu choices from the M10 accessible somehow on the M10 D ?  Without a rear screen, the menu system from the standard M10 isn't accessible - or is this maybe done using Wi-Fi?

[fabior]

I have had an M10D for two and a half years. I'd rather say it's a screenless M10 P due to the shutter being quieter. Camera settings are made through the fotos application. But once you set the time and date, file type (DNG Jpeg, bw) few possibilities remain. In foots app  you can also view the pictures taken as well and see in live view and shoot remotely even if all this is rather intricate. You can also save your favorite photos on your photos to be able to review them. It is a beautiful and  fascinating camera but with advantages and limitations.

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[MikeMyers]

So, all (or most?) of the choices on my M10 that are accessible from the MENU button, are accessed via the Fotos app on a phone?  And along with this, reviewing images?  No way to select color temperature, and all the ISO possibilities, and all the other things that I do via the menu on my M10 ?   I wouldn't have expected that, but I guess it makes sense, at least for how to do things, but not for why I would want to go through any of that.  There must be people who feel it is useful I guess.

[grahamc]

Hi Mike 

I will try to screen shot what ‘menu’ options for the camera settings are available on Fotos app for the m10-D later and post them here. BecUse the menu / setting choices is quite limited for the D. 
 

For example, one difference is you can’t select uncoded lenses

But you can select / change the essentials such as white balance when needed. 
 

Like most D users I haven’t really changed the settings much this way as once you have your preferred settings set up (eg auto ISO preferences for minimum shutter speed) then I think the ethos of the camera is then that “it is what it is” and enjoy the simplicity of it. 
 

I do find the fotos app quite seamless for reviewing images but I don’t do this often, only in the context that I am working with someone or if I have downtime after shooting and can’t wait until I’m home to see how I got on. It’s handy, but In reality it’s far more cumbersome than checking on the back of the camera of course.  
 

I love the D and would find it difficult to go to a screened M I think because it is such a gorgeous design. 

[grahamc]

Could be noted that “maybe “ the D is best suited to RAW shooters as I alter white balance etc in post editing 

essentially the things you see see on the camera are the things you can change on the camera 

[fabior]

Yes, you can review the images and even download them on the phone via app choosing hi or low resolution . You can set iso possibilities but I don't remember about color temperature as I Had only used AWB. Forget to find in the menu all you find in the M10 menu. 

[MikeMyers]

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17 minutes ago, grahamc said:

I love the D and would find it difficult to go to a screened M I think because it is such a gorgeous design. 

You know, I agree with you, and it is a beautiful design, and I was getting intrigued by the camera, but really....

It sounds silly to me to leave off the display on the back of the camera, but then to use an iPhone instead?  

 

One other thing - most of my life, I've thought "form follows function".   

If it wasn't so costly, and so hard to find, I think it would be enjoyable to buy one, but I'm too spoiled by my M10.  Back when I had a paycheck coming in every so often, I always found ways to buy the new things I got intrigued by, but now that I'm retired, it's a different story.  I'm also intrigued by the Monochrom, but I'll have to settle for just doing B&W work on my M10 instead.  If I did have a paycheck coming in, I'd be much closer to getting an M11, but that's a different discussion.  

Oh, ever since I got my M8.2, I only shoot in RAW.  Now I'm reading that the jpg images are better than what people used to say about them, but unless I'm shooting stuff to just give away to people who don't care, I leave all my cameras set to RAW.

[grahamc]

4 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

You know, I agree with you, and it is a beautiful design, and I was getting intrigued by the camera, but really....

It sounds silly to me to leave off the display on the back of the camera, but then to use an iPhone instead?  

 

One other thing - most of my life, I've thought "form follows function".   

If it wasn't so costly, and so hard to find, I think it would be enjoyable to buy one, but I'm too spoiled by my M10.  Back when I had a paycheck coming in every so often, I always found ways to buy the new things I got intrigued by, but now that I'm retired, it's a different story.  I'm also intrigued by the Monochrom, but I'll have to settle for just doing B&W work on my M10 instead.  If I did have a paycheck coming in, I'd be much closer to getting an M11, but that's a different discussion.  

Oh, ever since I got my M8.2, I only shoot in RAW.  Now I'm reading that the jpg images are better than what people used to say about them, but unless I'm shooting stuff to just give away to people who don't care, I leave all my cameras set to RAW.

This all makes complete sense Mike

The screen versus Fotos app topic had come up a few times so I thought about it a lot back then and my conclusions were that if a user likes to review images whilst shooting (let’s say even 50% of the time) then absolutely a screenless M and cumbersome work around makes no sense at all.   For users that absolutely prefer no screen (for shooting experience aswell as looks) the majority of the time but feel it useful on occasion to do so then the D is the better choice for them than having a screen that they would really prefer not to have on the cameras . But it would really need to be users that are reviewing images only very occasionally and all other times preferring the screenless 

This is how I prefer to experience the picture taking process for daily use, aswell as the gorgeous looks of the camera (I’m sure a contributing reason to any M choice) but if I really needed to make my work count eg in a portraiture session or client shoot then I would question if D is the right choice because the user would be constantly using fotos and may as well have a screen  

Funnily enough for my style of photography (mostly street) I think I gain more in the photo by not having a screen than if I did as I am feeling my way through it a bit more and philosophically I think this comes across in the photos .  Or at least I think it does, and that’s all that matters as it means I greatly enjoy using it and also the photos  

But these things being as expensive as they are we can’t have them all ! The D is my only digital M currently 

[grahamc]

And of course any M can be used with screen off, and any colour M can ‘take’ b&w photos 😁

we are spoilt to be able to choose the perfect M for us, and our wallets can hurt as a result.  For me I’m considering buying a screened M for the very few ocassions that I “need” (i.e want) it 

[MikeMyers]

9 minutes ago, grahamc said:

For me I’m considering buying a screened M for the very few ocassions that I “need” (i.e want) it 

It also means you'll always have a "back-up" camera available.     🙂

[grahamc]

2 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

It also means you'll always have a "back-up" camera available.     🙂

Don’t tempt me !   😂  but yes that’s what I’m thinking also 

[sebben]

You can change photo parameters via the app. Basically the phone becomes a wireless Live view screen. Quite handy for studio work where you need to move objects around as you can change compositions whilst looking at the phone at the same time. 

[jakontil]

3 hours ago, grahamc said:

Don’t tempt me !   😂  but yes that’s what I’m thinking also 

Exactly what happened to me, during my long spell with the D, my screen and then the safari m10p became a great backup 🤪

[Stevejack]

One other consideration is how you hold the camera - On a film camera for example, I do grip it differently and find it much more comfortable to hold, given that I have the full back of the camera to wrap my hands around.  On the M10 with a screen, I find I am trying to grip the camera to avoid pressing the buttons and touching the screen. 

It's probably a small point, but could be significant for some especially if they're coming from a film Leica. I notice the difference especially when holding the camera in portrait mode. Could also just be me though  🤷‍♂️

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, sebben said:

You can change photo parameters via the app. Basically the phone becomes a wireless Live view screen. Quite handy for studio work where you need to move objects around as you can change compositions whilst looking at the phone at the same time. 

I like this feature when taking pictures of people - set the camera up, talk, interact and take pictures without the camera in front of your face.  I do this with all my WiFi enabled cameras.

[grahamc]

7 hours ago, sebben said:

You can change photo parameters via the app. Basically the phone becomes a wireless Live view screen. Quite handy for studio work where you need to move objects around as you can change compositions whilst looking at the phone at the same time. 

Thanks @sebben & @IkarusJohn.  One thing I've had an issue with when using fotos as a photo review tool when working with people , is that the photo displayed on the iPad/iPhone via fotos does not default to the last photo taken.  It always seems to be on the last photo I looked at .  So if I look at a photo and then take several more shots, I then have to slide through the shots until I hit the most recent one.

Do you know if there is a setting so that the app shows the last photo taken, much like a camera would when you hit 'play'

I was planning to have a good look around the settings but perhaps you guys know?

This is the only frustrating thing I've found as intuitively I want the last photo to be shown and scroll back from there

Many thanks

[grahamc]

3 hours ago, jakontil said:

Exactly what happened to me, during my long spell with the D, my screen and then the safari m10p became a great backup 🤪

I guess the question then is have you used it much (the screened one)?  

Hint : I'm setting you up to say 'no' and save me USD8000 here 🤣

[grahamc]

2 hours ago, Stevejack said:

One other consideration is how you hold the camera - On a film camera for example, I do grip it differently and find it much more comfortable to hold, given that I have the full back of the camera to wrap my hands around.  On the M10 with a screen, I find I am trying to grip the camera to avoid pressing the buttons and touching the screen. 

It's probably a small point, but could be significant for some especially if they're coming from a film Leica. I notice the difference especially when holding the camera in portrait mode. Could also just be me though  🤷‍♂️

It's a good point !   Just kinda nice to pick up too

[IkarusJohn]

21 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Thanks @sebben & @IkarusJohn.  One thing I've had an issue with when using fotos as a photo review tool when working with people , is that the photo displayed on the iPad/iPhone via fotos does not default to the last photo taken.  It always seems to be on the last photo I looked at .  So if I look at a photo and then take several more shots, I then have to slide through the shots until I hit the most recent one.

Do you know if there is a setting so that the app shows the last photo taken, much like a camera would when you hit 'play'

I was planning to have a good look around the settings but perhaps you guys know?

This is the only frustrating thing I've found as intuitively I want the last photo to be shown and scroll back from there

Many thanks

Turn off review?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grahamc]

16 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Turn off review?

Ah sorry I mean in review mode.  I don't use live mode I use review but if a single image is showing it always is the last one I looked at , rather than the last one I actually took .  Will have a play around with it tonight