SL3 with M11 sensor?

[MaBu]

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60 MP would be more than enough for me. What I really would like to see in the SL3 is: strongly improved AF, with better tracking performance, including face&eye focus, better ISO/low light performance and even higher DR.

[Jim B]

Hope not terrible color….. have you seen the skin tones? That’s an interesting shade of peach….

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[Jim B]

I do not think these SL camera’s will ever come close to Sony’s auto focus. The A1 is incredible, and it doesn’t miss. I do not believe Leica has the technology, and the SL lenses do not focus that fast. They will always be years in the past for performance. 

[lx1713]

8 hours ago, Jim B said:

I do not think these SL camera’s will ever come close to Sony’s auto focus. The A1 is incredible, and it doesn’t miss. I do not believe Leica has the technology, and the SL lenses do not focus that fast. They will always be years in the past for performance. 

😄It's a technology thing, sooner or later it will become good enough.

On the other hand, I really don't think Sony will ever get manual focus like and M, R or Leica's Cine lenses. It's matter of the philosophy of how one wants to do things. Is AF performance a key issue for Leica? Probably not if it impacts image quality. The AF as it is already good enough for me but I would love for it to be better of course as I came from a Canon 1D  camera.

Upgrading AF speed is just a matter of a speedier chip and algorithms. You pay the money you get the hardware and code, and all your cameras get an upgrade. Mechanical feel and tactile usage is a costlier art to master. It's individually tuned for each lens.

[Photoworks]

9 hours ago, Jim B said:

I do not think these SL camera’s will ever come close to Sony’s auto focus. The A1 is incredible, and it doesn’t miss. I do not believe Leica has the technology, and the SL lenses do not focus that fast. They will always be years in the past for performance. 

and looking true the Sony viewfinder is not as nice. SL2 viewfinder is so much better.

[Jim B]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

and looking true the Sony viewfinder is not as nice. SL2 viewfinder is so much better.

Obviously you have no idea that the EVF resolution is almost double and completely blackout free…

[Jim B]

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3 hours ago, lx1713 said:

😄It's a technology thing, sooner or later it will become good enough.

On the other hand, I really don't think Sony will ever get manual focus like and M, R or Leica's Cine lenses. It's matter of the philosophy of how one wants to do things. Is AF performance a key issue for Leica? Probably not if it impacts image quality. The AF as it is already good enough for me but I would love for it to be better of course as I came from a Canon 1D  camera.

Upgrading AF speed is just a matter of a speedier chip and algorithms. You pay the money you get the hardware and code, and all your cameras get an upgrade. Mechanical feel and tactile usage is a costlier art to master. It's individually tuned for each lens.

Not sure what you mean there… I put m lenses on it and they manually  focus the same. Same as if I put them on the SL2

[BernardC]

13 minutes ago, Jim B said:

Obviously you have no idea that the EVF resolution is almost double and completely blackout free…

There's a difference between looking at the specifications and looking through the viewfinder. One thing that Leica excels at is putting high-quality optics in the viewfinder system, and fine-tuning the colour and contrast of the EVF image.

I have a similar impression when comparing Panasonic and Leica EVFs. You are looking at the same chip, but one looks much better to my eyes.

[Jeff S]

17 minutes ago, BernardC said:

There's a difference between looking at the specifications and looking through the viewfinder. One thing that Leica excels at is putting high-quality optics in the viewfinder system, and fine-tuning the colour and contrast of the EVF image.

I have a similar impression when comparing Panasonic and Leica EVFs. You are looking at the same chip, but one looks much better to my eyes.

+1. I don’t like EVFs, but bought the SL2 based on real life trial shooting.  The Nikon (then Z6/7?) would have been my second choice, as its VF also punches beyond its specs, due in large part, I suspect, to its quality optics. 
 

Leica prioritizes the VF experience, as do I, and excels whether optical (M and S) or electronic. Specs don’t tell the whole story… as with much of photography and gear.

Jeff
 

Jeff

[Mr.Prime]

9 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Leica prioritizes the VF experience, as do I, and excels whether optical (M and S) or electronic. Specs don’t tell the whole story… as with much of photography and gear.

Jeff

For me, this is also true - the user experience of cameras depends on the controls and the VF. I do think many camera manufacturers underestimate the importance of the VF because they assume everyone likes to use the LCD panel on the back. 

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Jim B said:

Obviously you have no idea that the EVF resolution is almost double and completely blackout free…

obviously I run into a Sony fanboy

I have 2SL2, a Sony A1 ,a Sony a7r3 and Sony A7r4 .

Megapixel is not everything, implementation and optics make a difference .

[Jim B]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

There's a difference between looking at the specifications and looking through the viewfinder. One thing that Leica excels at is putting high-quality optics in the viewfinder system, and fine-tuning the colour and contrast of the EVF image.

I have a similar impression when comparing Panasonic and Leica EVFs. You are looking at the same chip, but one looks much better to my eyes.

I do like the EVF on my SL2 

[Jim B]

7 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

obviously I run into a Sony fanboy

I have 2SL2, a Sony A1 ,a Sony a7r3 and Sony A7r4 .

Megapixel is not everything, implementation and optics make a difference .

I have many cameras too, and the biggest difference I see using the A1 is the black out free EVF. It makes it a lot easier to keep a fast moving subject in the frame. Sports, BIF Just like using a range finder…..

Definitely a fan of the blackout free viewfinder, I think anyone would be?

[BernardC]

5 minutes ago, Jim B said:

Definitely a fan of the blackout free viewfinder, I think anyone would be?

The brief blackout doesn't bother me. It's very similar to blinking, so I hardly notice it.

[MakinMemories]

On 6/2/2022 at 8:18 AM, Photoworks said:

obviously I run into a Sony fanboy

I have 2SL2, a Sony A1 ,a Sony a7r3 and Sony A7r4 .

Megapixel is not everything, implementation and optics make a difference .

Yup. While I am new to Leica, I'm not new to spotting trolls and I have seen a few on this forum in the brief time I have been here...

[Pelu2010]

On 6/2/2022 at 5:32 PM, Jim B said:

I have many cameras too, and the biggest difference I see using the A1 is the black out free EVF. It makes it a lot easier to keep a fast moving subject in the frame. Sports, BIF Just like using a range finder…..

Definitely a fan of the blackout free viewfinder, I think anyone would be?

Are you heading to a duel? Maybe you should meet and make a camera vs camera shootout. And let the forum discuss the pictures you come up with. 
 

I am sure that the next leica will have some nice new feature. Will it improve your photography? Maybe …. 
 

what can a workshop or mentoring do for you? 
 

I had so many discussions on the best camera, that I stop arguing about it. 
 

you can make nice picture with the worst camera. And shitty ones with the best camera available. 
 

shoot everyday a picture and it does not matter which camera you use. 
 

on the other hand there are tasks you can only achieve with special gear. 
 

all the mentioned cameras are excellent. 
so it depends on the level of skill that „you“ are able to shoot. 

[Photoworks]

11 hours ago, Pelu2010 said:

Are you heading to a duel? Maybe you should meet and make a camera vs camera shootout. And let the forum discuss the pictures you come up with. 
 

I am sure that the next leica will have some nice new feature. Will it improve your photography? Maybe …. 
 

what can a workshop or mentoring do for you? 
 

I had so many discussions on the best camera, that I stop arguing about it. 
 

you can make nice picture with the worst camera. And shitty ones with the best camera available. 
 

shoot everyday a picture and it does not matter which camera you use. 
 

on the other hand there are tasks you can only achieve with special gear. 
 

all the mentioned cameras are excellent. 
so it depends on the level of skill that „you“ are able to shoot. 

I agree with you, many great cameras out there. It is good to know there limitations are.

I feel sometimes I drive them to the edge of capability.

Always happy to see little improvement in hardware and software.

I trust Leica to work on new products that make them pleasant to use and improved performance.

[ravinj]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:30 AM, Jim B said:

Not sure what you mean there… I put m lenses on it and they manually  focus the same. Same as if I put them on the SL2

Do M lenses give the same result on the A1 as do on the SL2?

[Simone_DF]

4 hours ago, ravinj said:

Do M lenses give the same result on the A1 as do on the SL2?

Most, but not all, do. 

Wide angle lenses below 35mm do not play well on Sony sensors. They do not play that well on the SL2 too. If you want top performance from M lenses, shoot them on a M camera.

However, there are native "M" lenses optimized for Sony. The Zeiss Loxia are basically ZM lenses with minor optimizations to cope with Sony sensors. Voigtlander does the same, releasing the same lens in different mounts with minor tweaks.

We can also argue that you can autofocus M lenses with the Techart adapter on both Sony and Nikon cameras, something you cannot do on the SL2.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Simone_DF

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[ravinj]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

Wide angle lenses below 35mm do not play well on Sony sensors. They do not play that well on the SL2 too.

They play a LOT better on the SL2 than any Sony camera. 35 FLE has identical performance on SL2 and the M. 

 

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

However, there are native "M" lenses optimized for Sony. The Zeiss Loxia are basically ZM lenses with minor optimizations to cope with Sony sensors. Voigtlander does the same, releasing the same lens in different mounts with minor tweaks.

We can also argue that you can autofocus M lenses with the Techart adapter on both Sony and Nikon cameras, something you cannot do on the SL2.

With your logic the Sony A7RIV is a native M camera with minor optimizations for E mount lenses. 

We can also argue that you can select M lens profile on the SL2 that you can't do on the Sony and Nikon.