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SL3 with M11 sensor?


V23
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13 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_SL2

Nuvoton (ex Panasonic) made the CMOS sensor in the SL2

https://www.nuvoton.com/news/news/all/TSNuvotonNews-000372/

According to this link, the CMOS image sensor division (TPSCo) is 49% Nuvoton, 51% TowerJazz:

https://towersemi.com/2019/12/02/02122019/

Not that this makes any difference to photographers. Panasonic sold their share to another Japanese company that specializes in chip manufacturing.

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On 1/21/2022 at 11:49 AM, V23 said:

With M11 variable sensor Mp count there seems to be a naturel progression to introduce this technology into SL3 what are your thoughts?

I already have more than enough pixels to out resolve my eyes thanks! 

The SL series are good for a few more years before updating. I'd rather they updated the CL.

Edited by 2M6TTLs
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  • 1 month later...

Replacing a sensor is an end to end replacement of the entire imaging internals within the camera, with the possible exception of the ibis unit. Even it may need to be upgraded to provide finer stabilization for the increase MP count to achieve the same level of perceived stabilization. Things like CPU processing power, memory, card speeds, and heat dissipation all change - to name a few. Personally, I think that we will see an SL3 later this year based upon the same 60mp sensor. I am secretly hoping for phase detect AF...

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Posted (edited)

Since Leitz Leica has announced there will be a cine line for SL system, I bet SL3 will be more towards to S1H like camera, with 60MP max. 8K sensor.

 

The way you can have two complete system, M for simplicity and SL for professional photography and videography.

Edited by Reddy
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21 hours ago, Planetwide said:

Personally, I think that we will see an SL3 later this year based upon the same 60mp sensor. I am secretly hoping for phase detect AF...

Forget PDAF on the SL3, Panasonic's execs have already said it won't be done for the upcoming generation, mostly because it's already in production - see the GH6

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

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I'll be interested to see what the SL3 brings to the table. The main issue with the SL2 is the high iso noise isn't great to me, I typically don't like shooting over ISO 3200. PDAF would be huge, but I doubt it will be in the SL3, maybe the SL4. Tilting / flip screen, improved dynamic range, improved iso. I don't even need more then 47 megapixels really. Hopefully its not a Sony sensor but if it is I hope the colors are closer to the current SL2 than they are the M11. The M11 has the most Sony looking colors I've seen in a Leica camera. Yes, I know Sony made the sensor but it seems Leica didn't have custom fab or whatever that is necessary to incorporate their color science.

Edited by animefx
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9 hours ago, animefx said:

I'll be interested to see what the SL3 brings to the table. The main issue with the SL2 is the high iso noise isn't great to me, I typically don't like shooting over ISO 3200. PDAF would be huge, but I doubt it will be in the SL3, maybe the SL4. Tilting / flip screen, improved dynamic range, improved iso. I don't even need more then 47 megapixels really. Hopefully its not a Sony sensor but if it is I hope the colors are closer to the current SL2 than they are the M11. The M11 has the most Sony looking colors I've seen in a Leica camera. Yes, I know Sony made the sensor but it seems Leica didn't have custom fab or whatever that is necessary to incorporate their color science.

I think the real interesting L camera is the Sigma fp L.  It has pretty much the same sensor as the M11, but in a smaller package, and it has an optional EVF for those of us who prefer an LCD screen over an EVF/OVF.  And I think it uses PDAF.  I would really like to try it, and I wouldn't be surprised if, with the next update to the fp L, Sigma decides to includes an IBIS.  I just hope Leica decides to make the SL3 much lighter and smaller than the previous generations.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, MrFriendly said:

Source?

ERNST LEITZ WETZLAR JOINS THE L-MOUNT ALLIANCE

OCTOBER 14, 2021

Ernst Leitz Wetzlar GmbH is the first company to join the L-Mount Alliance since the public announcement of the standard at photokina 2018. Consisting of founding members Leica Camera AG, SIGMA, and Panasonic, the goal of the alliance is to utilize the L-mount standard developed by Leica Camera AG for cameras and lenses in future product development. Ernst Leitz Wetzlar designs and manufactures premium lenses for cinematography and believes that products developed with the L-Mount will present great benefits to cinematographers and photographers alike. 

 

The L-Mount offers the advantages of a large inner diameter of 51.6 mm along with a shallow flange depth of 20 mm, as well as a robust electronic interface. Originally introduced by Leica Camera AG in 2014, the L-Mount is now available on 10 cameras and over 50 lenses across the three existing alliance partners. 

 

Rainer Hercher, Managing Director: “We believe that the future of photography and cinematography includes a substantial market for shallow flange depth camera and lens designs. The advantages of the L-Mount when it comes to designing lenses is unquestionable as it enables fast, high-performance lenses to be smaller and less expensive to manufacture, characteristics limited by the physics of a deeper flange depth.” 

https://www.leitz-cine.com/article/ernst-leitz-wetzlar-joins-the-l-mount-alliance

Edited by Reddy
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18 hours ago, animefx said:

Yes, I know Sony made the sensor but it seems Leica didn't have custom fab or whatever that is necessary to incorporate their color science.

You might know that, but most of the evidence points to Tower Semiconductors. The sensor performs exactly like Tower's other sensors, and Sony Semi doesn't make a 60MP non-PDAF sensor.

Of course, this has been debated extensively elsewhere, and it doesn't have any bearing on your assessment of the M11's colour response (which was your main point).

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On 3/2/2022 at 6:55 AM, Reddy said:

The way you can have two complete system, M for simplicity and SL for professional photography and videography.

Fully agreed. On that note, it will be (for me) more than about time to get HSS. Dreaming the SL3 could be the one… 🫢. 

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6 hours ago, Hanno said:

Fully agreed. On that note, it will be (for me) more than about time to get HSS. Dreaming the SL3 could be the one… 🫢. 

Doesn't it already High Speed Sync? you just need to use the correct flash

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Posted (edited)
vor 40 Minuten schrieb Photoworks:

Doesn't it already High Speed Sync? you just need to use the correct flash

yes - but that means only a small number of Leica flashes, which are relabeled Nissin; nothing like Profoto or Godox

Edited by MediaFotografie
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41 minutes ago, MediaFotografie said:

yes - but that means only a small number of Leica flashes, which are relabeled Nissin; nothing like Profoto or Godox

correct, they said they are working with Profoto to come out with a compatible trigger...

The Leica flashes are made by Nissin, but there are internal differences ..

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On 3/27/2022 at 3:23 PM, Photoworks said:

correct, they said they are working with Profoto to come out with a compatible trigger...

The Leica flashes are made by Nissin, but there are internal differences ..

Music to my ears! A Profoto trigger would be one more nail in my Fuji coffin. Just hope it is backwards compatible with Q2 and SL2/SL2-S. 

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I occasionally toy with the idea of getting a Sony A1 or Nikon Z9 for their autofocus capabilities, but the SL2 manages OK for 99% of what I shoot.  The Sony E-mount lens lineup is starting to look tempting, if you can get a GM in real life.  But when I look at the results of my shoots, there is little to wish for.  The 24mm and  21mm Summicrons are in that little.

SL2 higher ISO performance is also a limitation.  The IBIS performance means that I rarely need to move from ISO 100, even hand held; I don't need to use Auto ISO as I did on the SL.

The main benefit of a 60Mpx sensor would, I suspect, be a reduction in moire.  It's interesting to see that folks that have the M11 are discovering that it's not really compatible with the rangefinder style of shooting (it has no IBIS and the lenses are designed for 24Mpx sensors, other than the likes of the unobtainable 35mm APO); who shoots a rangefinder on a tripod??

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14 hours ago, jrp said:

The main benefit of a 60Mpx sensor would, I suspect, be a reduction in moire.  It's interesting to see that folks that have the M11 are discovering that it's not really compatible with the rangefinder style of shooting (it has no IBIS and the lenses are designed for 24Mpx sensors, other than the likes of the unobtainable 35mm APO); who shoots a rangefinder on a tripod??

Not sure what you do with you camera. the rangefinder camera is just another camera. the M11 have decades of compatible lenses. Funny thing is the M lenses still look better on the M11 than SL2.

Moire. What is that? LOL in the last 3 years of shooting I have seen 10 pix with that in my collection. it is a non issue .

 

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