a.noctilux Posted January 20, 2022 Share #21 Posted January 20, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Who knows, maybe the native L lenses are in production, or as project ?. If Leica think Noctilux in L mount can be economically doable, they would do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 20, 2022 Posted January 20, 2022 Hi a.noctilux, Take a look here Noctilux lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ornello Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share #22 Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, a.noctilux said: Who knows, maybe the native L lenses are in production, or as project ?. If Leica think Noctilux in L mount can be economically doable, they would do. In 1966, when the first Noctilux (50mm f/1.2) was introduced, there were only two systems (M and R). Too, that lens was relatively small compared to the latest Noctilux lenses. The Leica M system really isn't suited to very large, heavy, super-speed lenses, either in weight or focussing ease. The rangefinder system is not suited for such lenses, and the whole point of the Leica was to be compact and light-weight. Such lenses are really better suited for the SL system. The SL system, rather than the M system, should be the 'main' Leica system. Edited January 20, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted January 20, 2022 Share #23 Posted January 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ornello said: In 1966, when the first Noctilux (50mm f/1.2) was introduced, there were only two systems (M and R). Too, that lens was relatively small compared to the latest Noctilux lenses. The Leica M system really isn't suited to very large heavy lenses, either in weight or focussing ease. The rangefinder system is not suited for such lenses, and the whole point of the Leica was to be compact and light-weight. Such lenses are really better suited for the SL system. I was fan of M and R for decades sharing same film, good' old' day. And two sets of lenses in many cases. Never seen Noctilux lens in R mount though not a big deal Instead I did use many Telyt-V (400/560 for Visoflex III) as Telyt-R when Leicaflex SL available, with a tube 11906 in place of 11905 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share #24 Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, a.noctilux said: I was fan of M and R for decades sharing same film, good' old' day. And two sets of lenses in many cases. Never seen Noctilux lens in R mount though not a big deal Instead I did use many Telyt-V (400/560 for Visoflex III) as Telyt-R when Leicaflex SL available, with a tube 11906 in place of 11905 There was a 52mm Noctilux for R, but it was not put into production: http://donzshadows.blogspot.com/2012/08/leitz-noctilux-r-52mm-f12-prototype.html https://www.overgaard.dk/leica-history-page-2.html I have two Leicaflex SL2 bodies, two Leicaflex SL2 MOT bodies, a customized Leicaflex SL (with meter from SL2 and silver knobs from original Leicaflex). I did own an R8 with motor but it was stolen. Eight lenses are in my kit. Edited January 20, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 20, 2022 Share #25 Posted January 20, 2022 On 1/19/2022 at 5:58 PM, Ornello said: ...A rangefinder focussing system is not sufficiently precise to allow the user to place the plane of focus of such lenses on a living, breathing subject at full aperture... I believe you intended to type 'me' instead of 'the user'. Philip. 1 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share #26 Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, pippy said: I believe you intended to type 'me' instead of 'the user'. Philip. Unless the subject is a statue, it's not really possible to do consistently. One cannot see the image. Man kann nicht das Bild sehen. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 20, 2022 Share #27 Posted January 20, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Ornello said: Unless the subject is a statue, it's not really possible to do consistently... I certainly wouldn't choose to shoot subject-matter which is moving at a brisk pace, Ornello, but I've had a fair amount of success when taking snaps in focus at f1.1 and when the subject is moving at a more leisurely or 'predictable' pace - and that includes my teasingly camera-shy cat...... Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtai Posted January 20, 2022 Share #28 Posted January 20, 2022 7 hours ago, a.noctilux said: Who knows, maybe the native L lenses are in production, or as project ?. If Leica think Noctilux in L mount can be economically doable, they would do. I already have the 50mm Summilux in native L mount and it’s already huge and heavy. A Noctilux would be delicious of course but let’s hope Leica keep it reasonably sized. The Nikon is such a monster I wouldn’t want to walk around with one. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted January 20, 2022 Share #29 Posted January 20, 2022 1 minute ago, rtai said: I already have the 50mm Summilux in native L mount and it’s already huge and heavy. A Noctilux would be delicious of course but let’s hope Leica keep it reasonably sized. The Nikon is such a monster I wouldn’t want to walk around with one. As manual focus L Noctilux 50mm that we talked about some posts back #8-9, this would not be so big. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share #30 Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, a.noctilux said: As manual focus L Noctilux 50mm that we talked about some posts back #8-9, this would not be so big. Precisely my point! The autofocus lenses are way too big for their focal length. Edited January 20, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2022 Share #31 Posted January 21, 2022 Maybe leica are waiting for sales to rise in L mount alliance cameras Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanno Posted January 21, 2022 Share #32 Posted January 21, 2022 23 hours ago, Ornello said: Not as a manual focus lens! The SL-Summicron 50mm is technically superior to its M counterpart. Technically. It has nothing to do with focusing. If what you are saying is that it is easier to focus manually on a RF/M vs EVF/SL, that is another question. I would generally agree to "faster" (and not easier), except at close range (btw the SL 50mm has 1/2 MFD as the M's, 0.35m vs 0.70m), where the quality of the SL2's EVF allows you to accurately and very quickly focus by moving forward/backward. That's in my experience of close distance focusing much better than RF. As said, otherwise the RF is much faster to focus with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanno Posted January 21, 2022 Share #33 Posted January 21, 2022 23 hours ago, Ornello said: I am not proposing to make the Noctilux lenses available only in the SL mount; rather, I am suggesting that they be offered also in SL mount, as manual focus lenses! Nicht nur, sondern auch! Given that there is already an adapter which allows to use the M-Noctilux with the SL, I can't even imagine Leica investing the time, ressources and efforts to produce an alternative SL-Noctilux, for a very tiny market segment. They do market research and customer survey before designing, producing and launching products and I can't see the volume justifying such an approach. I fully agree with your further point of M-Noctilux lenses being made prior to the SL but in fact are a.k.a. to being designed for the SL given their weight and more importantly for me their viewfinder blockage. I truly agreed with this (and I bought a SL2 just for using my Noctilux lenses), until the M11, Visoflex 2 and handgrip. The combination of the three makes it a very viable and practical solution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #34 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Hanno said: The SL-Summicron 50mm is technically superior to its M counterpart. Technically. It has nothing to do with focusing. If what you are saying is that it is easier to focus manually on a RF/M vs EVF/SL, that is another question. I would generally agree to "faster" (and not easier), except at close range (btw the SL 50mm has 1/2 MFD as the M's, 0.35m vs 0.70m), where the quality of the SL2's EVF allows you to accurately and very quickly focus by moving forward/backward. That's in my experience of close distance focusing much better than RF. As said, otherwise the RF is much faster to focus with. No, I am saying that a super-speed lens is hard to focus accurately with RF. Edited January 21, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #35 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Hanno said: Given that there is already an adapter which allows to use the M-Noctilux with the SL, I can't even imagine Leica investing the time, ressources and efforts to produce an alternative SL-Noctilux, for a very tiny market segment. They do market research and customer survey before designing, producing and launching products and I can't see the volume justifying such an approach. I fully agree with your further point of M-Noctilux lenses being made prior to the SL but in fact are a.k.a. to being designed for the SL given their weight and more importantly for me their viewfinder blockage. I truly agreed with this (and I bought a SL2 just for using my Noctilux lenses), until the M11, Visoflex 2 and handgrip. The combination of the three makes it a very viable and practical solution. The whole Gestalt of the M camera is contrary to these huge lenses. Anything faster than 1.4 is so much bigger as to make the thing unwieldy. Secondly, the additional cost for creating a new housing for SL cameras would be negligible in the price structure of Noctilux lenses. The SL system should be the primary system for the Noctilux lenses. Edited January 21, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21, 2022 Share #36 Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/19/2022 at 3:55 PM, rtai said: I also have an SL2 along side my M10m. As much as I love the M system the negatives such as finder blockage, imprecise rf, need for external finders and as Ornello said about not seeing oof transition, have been address by EVF focusing. Moreover I can now accurately focus my heavy as hell 85mm Summarex and keep it steady with IBIS. FWIW, M11 has digital live view stabilization. It works quite nicely. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21, 2022 Share #37 Posted January 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Ornello said: No, I am saying that a super-speed lens is hard to focus accurately with RF. According to Peter Karbe it is hard to focus with EVF too, as body motion comes to play (light swaying). Shooting a series of images instead of one can help. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanno Posted January 21, 2022 Share #38 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, SrMi said: According to Peter Karbe it is hard to focus with EVF too, as body motion comes to play (light swaying). Shooting a series of images instead of one can help. I have to say the SL2's IBIS is quite helpful. There was an old post (sorry for the self reference) where I showed 3 shots with the 1kg+ 75mm Noctilux on the SL2 circa 0.85m MFD, with 1.25 aperture and amazingly 1/10s (!), and all three shots were accurately sharp on the focus spot. For that, you need to not use the focus ring but your body to focus. And a very still cat 🤣 Post edit: the quality/high definition of the SL2's EVF allows that. I don't think I could do as well with a OVF. Edited January 21, 2022 by Hanno Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21, 2022 Share #39 Posted January 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Hanno said: I have to say the SL2's IBIS is quite helpful. There was an old post (sorry for the self reference) where I showed 3 shots with the 1kg+ 75mm Noctilux on the SL2 circa 0.85m MFD, with 1.25 aperture and amazingly 1/10s (!), and all three shots were accurately sharp on the focus spot. For that, you need to not use the focus ring but your body to focus. And a very still cat Post edit: the quality/high definition of the SL2's EVF allows that. I don't think I could do as well with a OVF. I was thinking of forward/backward movements that can only be handled by AF-C mode. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share #40 Posted January 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, SrMi said: I was thinking of forward/backward movements that can only be handled by AF-C mode. But most people don't like rangefinders. I hate 'em! https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2018/06/people-dont-like-rangefinders.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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