Reid's review on colors of M10R vs. M11

[otto.f]

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I'd like to recommend Reid's new test of the M11. He analyses color and noise with the M10R and the test contains very valuable information for M10R users but not in the least for M11 owners for shooting in different situations

Edited January 19, 2022 by otto.f

[Jon Warwick]

Thanks for flagging. I’ve just read it. As a Subscription website, I’m clearly not going to discuss anything about the article. But IMHO it was a very useful read about the M11 and M10-R, and as I often find typical with his analysis, he gets to his conclusions in an apparently very methodical and well-explained way. 

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[LocalHero1953]

I look forward to following this very long thread which won't have any information in it🙂.

I shall enjoy it from the background, as I neither own a M10R or M11, nor do I subscribe to Reid Reviews.

Edited January 19, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[otto.f]

10 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I look forward to following this very long thread which won't have any information in it🙂.

I shall enjoy it from the background, as I neither own a M10R or M11, nor do I subscribe to Reid Reviews.

this is only for the happy few of course, which is good custom under Leica owners 😁

[shirubadanieru]

I read it; summary: M10-R is looking pretty good lol won’t say more

[Chaemono]

I sometimes found that I did not agree with his conclusions. He is known to work very methodically and meticulously, obviously, but he sees color differently from how I see it, for example.

[otto.f]

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7 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I sometimes found that I did not agree with his conclusions. He is known to work very methodically and meticulously, obviously, but he sees color differently from how I see it, for example.

Yes I had that in this article also a few times, but the photo's speak for themselves and it's still usefull for noise behavior of these cameras. But here in LUF I see very often these differences in seeing colors, which I don't believe can be explained by different screens alone.

[M9reno]

I re-subscribed to his site last week, after letting an earlier subscription lapse 7 years ago. There is much there, particularly stuff written since 2014, that is extremely interesting, but I find the article index somewhat of a lump of topics and thus not very user-friendly (still as I remember it from 2014).

[UliWer]

Well, if I read a book or a newspaper I have to pay for I shall not quote it by copy and paste or plagiarize it  but I am not forbidden to talk about the content. Otherwise mankind would have stayed illiterate. 

To make it short: Sean Reid shows that the differences between color rendition of the M10-R and the M11 are very small. He thinks that the colors of each Leica M model can be imitated using another model by small changes of saturation and/or white balance in the raw developer.

As far as noise is concerned he says that the files on the M10-R perhaps look "cleaner" at low ISO, but the results of the M11 look much better at high ISO. There are subtle differences  between the different files sizes from the M11. 

As always he says that his findings do represent only his personal impressions and different approaches are possible. I sometimes differed quite a lot from his findings with other tests in the past, but this time I can follow him from what I saw in his examples.

His tests of the M11 will go on and I think its a worthwhile reading even if you do not intend to buy the M11.  

 

 

[lct]

3 minutes ago, UliWer said:

Well, if I read a book or a newspaper I have to pay for I shall not quote it by copy and paste or plagiarize it  but I am not forbidden to talk about the content. Otherwise mankind would have stayed illiterate.

+1

[M9reno]

4 minutes ago, UliWer said:

Well, if I read a book or a newspaper I have to pay for I shall not quote it by copy and paste or plagiarize it  but I am not forbidden to talk about the content. Otherwise mankind would have stayed illiterate. 

To make it short: Sean Reid shows that the differences between color rendition of the M10-R and the M11 are very small. He thinks that the colors of each Leica M model can be imitated using another model by small changes of saturation and/or white balance in the raw developer.

As far as noise is concerned he says that the files on the M10-R perhaps look "cleaner" at low ISO, but the results of the M11 look much better at high ISO. There are subtle differences  between the different files sizes from the M11. 

As always he says that his findings do represent only his personal impressions and different approaches are possible. I sometimes differed quite a lot from his findings with other tests in the past, but this time I can follow him from what I saw in his examples.

His tests of the M11 will go on and I think its a worthwhile reading even if you do not intend to buy the M11.  

 

 

The differences he notices in the M11’s output at its three different resolution settings is also quite interesting.

[helged]

4 minutes ago, lct said:

+1

+2 to @UliWer.

[otto.f]

19 minutes ago, M9reno said:

I re-subscribed to his site last week, after letting an earlier subscription lapse 7 years ago. There is much there, particularly stuff written since 2014, that is extremely interesting, but I find the article index somewhat of a lump of topics and thus not very user-friendly (still as I remember it from 2014).

And the search function doesn’t help either, can’t find what’s definitely there

Edited January 19, 2022 by otto.f

[Ouroboros]

I've never read a Reid Review and have no intention of subscribing.

24 minutes ago, UliWer said:

 

.....To make it short: Sean Reid shows that the differences between color rendition of the M10-R and the M11 are very small. He thinks that the colors of each Leica M model can be imitated using another model by small changes of saturation and/or white balance in the raw developer.

 

 

 

No shit.....

[Chaemono]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb UliWer:

…

To make it short: Sean Reid shows that the differences between color rendition of the M10-R and the M11 are very small. He thinks that the colors of each Leica M model can be imitated using another model by small changes of saturation and/or white balance in the raw developer.

As far as noise is concerned he says that the files on the M10-R perhaps look "cleaner" at low ISO, but the results of the M11 look much better at high ISO. There are subtle differences  between the different files sizes from the M11. 

…

I can’t believe that would be his conclusion on the difference in color. It seems to me, better (more accurate) colors in untouched DNGs (with Adobe profiles) is the strength of the M11 over any previous Ms. Better reds, better greens, better skin tones. And on the noise, 61 MP should show more noise than 40 MP. At the same size, M11 should be way better at any ISO level.

[UliWer]

Before the M10 I had the M9. Out of camera the colors differed significantly. Though with a very simple adjustment of white balance I could not tell one from the other. 

[Chaemono]

Accurate reds and pleasing skin tones had always been an issue. My impression was that they now fixed it with the M11. 

[Tp2000]

15 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I can’t believe that would be his conclusion on the difference in color. It seems to me, better (more accurate) colors in untouched DNGs (with Adobe profiles) is the strength of the M11 over any previous Ms. Better reds, better greens, better skin tones. And on the noise, 61 MP should show more noise than 40 MP. At the same size, M11 should be way better at any ISO level.

I don't believe it was the conclusion (or not as I read it). 

I read it as the conclusion was around noise levels at similar ISO and resolutions (and colour from either sensor could be matched quickly in Lightroom) 

 

 

[elmars]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Chaemono:

Accurate reds and pleasing skin tones had always been an issue. My impression was that they now fixed it with the M11. 

Yes, but it was fixed in the M10R in nearly the same way too (different to the "normal" M10/M10P).

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[tom0511]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Chaemono:

I can’t believe that would be his conclusion on the difference in color. It seems to me, better (more accurate) colors in untouched DNGs (with Adobe profiles) is the strength of the M11 over any previous Ms. Better reds, better greens, better skin tones. And on the noise, 61 MP should show more noise than 40 MP. At the same size, M11 should be way better at any ISO level.

My understanding and findings are that differences are much less/small than you suggest. And I go so far that at the moment not all differences are only in favor of the M11 (at the moment). The substantial differences in noise seems to be mainly at the very high ISO . 

Edited January 19, 2022 by tom0511