BH Photo + M11

[M Journey]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

11 hours ago, MrFriendly said:

What happens to the returned cameras?  Do they go back to the factory to be repackaged?  Or does the dealer repackage and sell them as new?

Leica items come in a outer grey box that is sealed.  the actual item box isn't.  the three leica items i've purchased have been sealed in the outer box.  I think some forum posters have noted that some stores will sell opened items/returned items as new.  not sure if this includes B&H.

[Yarosuav]

2 hours ago, Ba Erv said:

So, you don’t mind paying full price for a random demo.  

You’re right - I don’t mind. And probably neither do you - you’re never going to know if a “new” item you bought has not been returned previously…

I bought a ton of stuff from B&H over the years, and always had a great experience. But I don’t buy Leica from them as their waitlists are way too long…

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Ba Erv]

10 minutes ago, Yarosuav said:

You’re right - I don’t mind. And probably neither do you - you’re never going to know if a “new” item you bought has not been returned previously…

I bought a ton of stuff from B&H over the years, and always had a great experience. But I don’t buy Leica from them as their waitlists are way too long…

Actually, I do mind; new means new not previously slightly used.  Furthermore, Leicas are sealed and it’s easy to spot an opened outer box ( tear easily).  

[Foxtwo]

When the M10 released, I got on the BH wait list, checked for updates when I visited the NYC store, found a camera elsewhere, and still haven’t heard back from them! 

To their credit, BH was very honest about inventory and recommended several places in NYC to check. I was flying all over the world at the time, so had plenty of face to face options. While there is no way to know if the M11 will be similar, I’d get on a list at every reputable dealer in the free world.

Might even try the small, hidden shop North Korea, but I’d put it last.

[Yarosuav]

1 hour ago, Ba Erv said:

Actually, I do mind; new means new not previously slightly used.  Furthermore, Leicas are sealed and it’s easy to spot an opened outer box ( tear easily).  

They inspect the camera, put it back in the box and put a new outer box around it with a new sticker… They have plenty of those from Leica, and authorization to repackage and sell items as new, unless defective or with obvious signs of wear. That’s the cost of generous return policies - it’s not like B&H is going to send the camera back to Leica (Leica would repackage it and sell as new anyway) or sell as used/demo.  

[aksclix]

21 hours ago, setuporg said:

I love my local dealer but I’m seriously considering BH Photo for M11 as they have a 30 day return policy that can actually be needed if the thing doesn’t grow on you.  (Having their old payboo card that eliminates the sales tax, that ends up near $1K, also helps.). What kind of experience have folks had dealing with BH Photo buying and returning/replacing Leicas?  What about the wait, given their popularity?

As long as you don’t buy from B&H used dept, you’re good.. their used department is full of liars! I’ve had terrible experiences.. the rating scale is rarely true/honest.. I’ve had to return multiple items because of that! 
also, payboo was going to expire and everyone had to reapply for a new one I believe.. 

[aksclix]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I highly recommend Adorama over B&H! 
their VIP yearly fee pays for itself.. you get 5% off of tax with their edge card. Plus, you get points for every purchase and over time you get to convert those into real money!! Their service better to me as well.. I had another terrible experience with B&H few years ago when the sales associate tried to sell me a battered lens marked as excellent 

[Ba Erv]

28 minutes ago, Yarosuav said:

They inspect the camera, put it back in the box and put a new outer box around it with a new sticker… They have plenty of those from Leica, and authorization to repackage and sell items as new, unless defective or with obvious signs of wear. That’s the cost of generous return policies - it’s not like B&H is going to send the camera back to Leica (Leica would repackage it and sell as new anyway) or sell as used/demo.  

Great, thanks for the info. I’ll be back in Wetzlar in the spring and I’ll inquire about your claims in person (printed copy of this comment) with Leica management.  In the meantime, I’ll never buy another product from B&H.

[Yarosuav]

12 minutes ago, aksclix said:

I highly recommend Adorama over B&H! 
their VIP yearly fee pays for itself.. you get 5% off of tax with their edge card. Plus, you get points for every purchase and over time you get to convert those into real money!! Their service better to me as well.. I had another terrible experience with B&H few years ago when the sales associate tried to sell me a battered lens marked as excellent 

I actually prefer dealing with Adorama as well - I believe they’re smaller and it shows in better customer service. But good luck buying a new Leica release from any of these large retailers…

[Franka373]

The return policy is excellent at B&H and sets them apart until you return something one too many times.  Read the fine print in their policy.  They cut off returns after so many events and it is hard to find out how many times that means.  So be careful.  I prefer the Leica stores because the folks are very willing to help and and are very knowledgeable.  

[aksclix]

That’s where Adorama is better once again.. I have returned a fair number of items as well.. they let me print the return labels directly and as a VIP CUSTOMER I get free returns too… 

they also mark open box items as “OB” (without the wan kenobi) 😀 and they are typically 200-300 bucks lower.. these could be returned items which are still new and show no signs of use.. they come with regular warranty as well! 
 

now that the payboo is gone or has reduced benefit, I would never bother shopping at B&H. I am extremely happy with Adorama

 

[setuporg]

On 1/19/2022 at 1:58 PM, aksclix said:

I highly recommend Adorama over B&H! 
their VIP yearly fee pays for itself.. you get 5% off of tax with their edge card. Plus, you get points for every purchase and over time you get to convert those into real money!! Their service better to me as well.. I had another terrible experience with B&H few years ago when the sales associate tried to sell me a battered lens marked as excellent 

5% is not enough for CA which tacks on 10%.  Payboo covers all of it.  Adorama does an old-fashioned credit check on you as well while Payboo is a more modern setup.  Alas the new Payboo returns with lower limits making it more useful for "normal" cameras.:)

I'm thinking of using my last old Payboo preorder for trying out a black M11.  As they say in Russian, when you drink to the end, cut the last pickle.  With all the questionable updates, why not try the light body as well.  If any of those are non-starters, send it back.  And you get a month to compare it back to back with what you have, eg M10-R that makes this a tough choice.

[SrMi]

57 minutes ago, setuporg said:

5% is not enough for CA which tacks on 10%.  Payboo covers all of it.  Adorama does an old-fashioned credit check on you as well while Payboo is a more modern setup.  Alas the new Payboo returns with lower limits making it more useful for "normal" cameras.:)

I'm thinking of using my last old Payboo preorder for trying out a black M11.  As they say in Russian, when you drink to the end, cut the last pickle.  With all the questionable updates, why not try the light body as well.  If any of those are non-starters, send it back.  And you get a month to compare it back to back with what you have, eg M10-R that makes this a tough choice.

That generous return policy is why I avoid buying from B&H. 

B&H representative said in 2007:

If a product is returned to us in pristine as-new condition and the reason for the return is, "I changed my mind," or "I should've ordered the larger size," or something OTHER THAN "It's not working correctly," it will either go back on the shelf or become an "open box" item or go to the used dept, depending on individual circumstances.

 

[hdmesa]

 

On 1/19/2022 at 5:22 AM, Yarosuav said:

I believe if there’s nothing wrong with the camera, B&H will repackage and sell as new (which makes sense - it’s still a new camera). They are the largest authorized retailer for most photography brands, so they know how to inspect and repackage to OEM’s specs. 

No, they sell as Open Box or Demo.

 

On 1/19/2022 at 2:27 PM, Yarosuav said:

They inspect the camera, put it back in the box and put a new outer box around it with a new sticker… They have plenty of those from Leica, and authorization to repackage and sell items as new, unless defective or with obvious signs of wear. That’s the cost of generous return policies - it’s not like B&H is going to send the camera back to Leica (Leica would repackage it and sell as new anyway) or sell as used/demo.  

Source? The outer boxes have special UPC stickers and a serial number sticker – no way they have an archive of boxes with a "make your own serial number sticker machine" in house. LOL.

Edited January 26, 2022 by hdmesa

[SrMi]

47 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

 

No, they sell as Open Box or Demo.

B&H representative said that they may sell returned items as new (post #33). I assume, that occurs if the returned item in flawless state.

The full quote:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/587262/0&year=2007#5145694

 

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

B&H representative said that they may sell returned items as new (post #33). I assume, that occurs if the returned item in flawless state.

The full quote:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/587262/0&year=2007#5145694

 

He didn't give the determinants for going back on the shelf versus being resold as open box / demo. If I use my magic crystal ball, I see them returning unsealed products such as those from Canon and Fujifilm back to the shelf. Sealed products such as those from Leica probably go the demo route. No one buying a new Leica accepts a broken outer box as a new product unless they only sell those to in-store customers who can be assured they are A-OK.

[aksclix]

2 hours ago, setuporg said:

5% is not enough for CA which tacks on 10%.  Payboo covers all of it.  Adorama does an old-fashioned credit check on you as well while Payboo is a more modern setup.  Alas the new Payboo returns with lower limits making it more useful for "normal" cameras.:)

I'm thinking of using my last old Payboo preorder for trying out a black M11.  As they say in Russian, when you drink to the end, cut the last pickle.  With all the questionable updates, why not try the light body as well.  If any of those are non-starters, send it back.  And you get a month to compare it back to back with what you have, eg M10-R that makes this a tough choice.

It’s 5% + points back in your account with which you could buy more gear! It won’t make up for the remaining 5% but it could come close 2-3% moreover, the VIP membership pays for itself.. free shipping, free returns.. extended warranty and more.. I bought my R3 from Adorama while I could’ve gone with B&H.. better service for a mere 100-200 dollar difference? I’ll take that 😌

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

He didn't give the determinants for going back on the shelf versus being resold as open box / demo. If I use my magic crystal ball, I see them returning unsealed products such as those from Canon and Fujifilm back to the shelf. Sealed products such as those from Leica probably go the demo route. No one buying a new Leica accepts a broken outer box as a new product unless they only sell those to in-store customers who can be assured they are A-OK.

It is excellent that Leica seals the outer grey box. B&H and Amazon customers have reported receiving new Leica items with seals broken. It is up to them whether they want to return the item or keep it.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

It is excellent that Leica seals the outer grey box. B&H and Amazon customers have reported receiving new Leica items with seals broken. It is up to them whether they want to return the item or keep it.

Bummer. I got a new Q-P from B&H a while back that had no outer box at all, and when I called, they offered to replace it with another one if I was dissatisfied. I thought it was just a fluke, but sounds like it's not. Adorama has a lot of Open Box Leica gear, so I wonder if they are more strict about not selling broken seal Leica products as new.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[setuporg]

5 hours ago, aksclix said:

It’s 5% + points back in your account with which you could buy more gear! It won’t make up for the remaining 5% but it could come close 2-3% moreover, the VIP membership pays for itself.. free shipping, free returns.. extended warranty and more.. I bought my R3 from Adorama while I could’ve gone with B&H.. better service for a mere 100-200 dollar difference? I’ll take that 😌

B&H provided nothing but stellar service to me, free expedited shipping, quick response, returns and refunds.  I don’t know how anyone can improve on it.  I don’t think there’s anything much superior.  So far Adorama was always a follower.  I’ve not seen anything at Adorama that was not present at B&H….