Any lingering M10-R-BP left in stock?

[ILC32]

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Hi.  New here.

I received my M10RBP from a US-based AD in November, and at the time I was told it was the last one they expected to get from Leica.

In order to finance the purchase, I traded two LHSA M6 black paint bodies with glossy Rapidwinders, as well as my M9 with sensor corrosion.

I love the M10RBP, and I’m very happy I made the trade!

[Winedemonium]

In any case it is limited to 2000 units. Doesn't seem like such a large number to sell through. 

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[M9reno]

As far as I can tell, this one is still available:

https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/m-bodies/16995-leica-m10-r-black-paint-finish.html

[Jacobjuul]

It can still be bought in Europe. I bought one very recently. 

I doubt it's a limited edition, but it IS a special edition. If they haven't manage to sell 2000 yet, then the Leica market is significantly smaller than I thought.

[Al Brown]

7 hours ago, Winedemonium said:

In any case it is limited to 2000 units. Doesn't seem like such a large number to sell through. 

Not really limited as it does not have a number (XXXX/2000). Only their items with such numbering are in fact limited.
All the talk about 2000 pieces being made means they will do more if there is demand before phasing out the model for a new one. It is how their marketing strategy works.
I have verified this with Leica in Wetzlar, Leica Store Vienna (100% Wetzlar owned) and several respected Leica dealers.

[Masukami]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Not really limited as it does not have a number (XXXX/2000). Only their items with such numbering are in fact limited.
All the talk about 2000 pieces being made means they will do more if there is demand before phasing out the model for a new one. It is how their marketing strategy works.
I have verified this with Leica in Wetzlar, Leica Store Vienna (100% Wetzlar owned) and several respected Leica dealers.

This is confirmed by what I have seen in at least one dealer where they sold out only to have more stock a few days later. 

[KateStarr]

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8 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Not really limited as it does not have a number (XXXX/2000). Only their items with such numbering are in fact limited.
All the talk about 2000 pieces being made means they will do more if there is demand before phasing out the model for a new one. It is how their marketing strategy works.
I have verified this with Leica in Wetzlar, Leica Store Vienna (100% Wetzlar owned) and several respected Leica dealers.

Thanks, @Al Brown this is helpful and comports with what I heard from my Leica dealer.

[Winedemonium]

12 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Not really limited as it does not have a number (XXXX/2000). Only their items with such numbering are in fact limited.
All the talk about 2000 pieces being made means they will do more if there is demand before phasing out the model for a new one. It is how their marketing strategy works.
I have verified this with Leica in Wetzlar, Leica Store Vienna (100% Wetzlar owned) and several respected Leica dealers.

Leicacamerausa.com - 'This Leica M10-R exclusive design edition has restricted availability with 2,000 units worldwide.'

Leica Camera Online Store UK - 'This Leica M10-R exclusive design edition has restricted availability of only 2,000 units worldwide.'

The statements from Leica are either true or not true. If they are not true then there are consumer protection laws applicable in both of those two markets at least. 

[Al Brown]

7 hours ago, Winedemonium said:

Leicacamerausa.com - 'This Leica M10-R exclusive design edition has restricted availability with 2,000 units worldwide.'

Leica Camera Online Store UK - 'This Leica M10-R exclusive design edition has restricted availability of only 2,000 units worldwide.'

The statements from Leica are either true or not true. If they are not true then there are consumer protection laws applicable in both of those two markets at least. 

Nothing they wrote is untrue. All above is on point. No word about limited edition on the webpage, the wording is SPECIAL EDITION and LIMITED RUN. No numbering. Restricted availability just means it is not built in ordinary production numbers like the rest of M10-Rs. One reputable Austrian dealer explained the company marketing philosophy very accurately: "There are "LIMITIERT" (limited, restricted) Leica products with initial batches that - if sold well - can be multiplied and there are "STRENG LIMITIERT" (strictly limited) Leica products which are numbered and irreproducible."
It is very unlikely though that Leica will do more than 2000. But the point is, if they wanted to they legally could and would - happened several times before.

[Winedemonium]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

It is very unlikely though that Leica will do more than 2000. But the point is, if they wanted to they legally could and would - happened several times before.

I don't have the legal expertise to offer an opinion on wether exceeding 2000 units would breach any consumer laws in any markets in which the statement has been made. But as a consumer, in plain English, ... 

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

Restricted availability just means it is not built in ordinary production numbers like the rest of M10-Rs.

...does not have the same meaning as...

9 hours ago, Winedemonium said:

'This Leica M10-R exclusive design edition has restricted availability of only 2,000 units worldwide.'

(bolding added by me).

I did not buy the M10-R Black Paint because it was advertised by Leica to be restricted to 2000 units worldwide, but the statement did spur me on to buy it while it was available, and Leica having made the statement, made the 2000 piece limit an attribute of this camera, and its appeal. Customers should be able to reply on this statement as something that would be honoured by Leica. Otherwise, as a customer, it is my view that Leica should not be making such statements.

[M9reno]

My understanding is that there are a few cases like this where people in this forum have speculated that a "special edition" of a (stated) certain number of units has exceeded those units.  But I don't think Leica has ever confirmed those speculations.  See for example:

 

[Al Brown]

5 hours ago, M9reno said:

My understanding is that there are a few cases like this where people in this forum have speculated that a "special edition" of a (stated) certain number of units has exceeded those units.  But I don't think Leica has ever confirmed those speculations.  See for example:

 

Your point is valid, but me, I am not speculating anything. I encourage anyone to write to Leica in Wetzlar regarding the case, I have done it and have received my answer.

[M9reno]

21 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Your point is valid, but me, I am not speculating anything. I encourage anyone to write to Leica in Wetzlar regarding the case, I have done it and have received my answer.

Sorry, Al. My point was not at all that you are speculating about M10R-BP numbers - it was about the special edition lenses. However, I might have missed something because I was not aware that you had said that you wrote to Leica in Wetzlar about this: what was the answer they gave you, if I may ask?

Edited January 29, 2022 by M9reno

[KateStarr]

I don't know about specific productions numbers or what claims Leica may have made, but I can say that my Leica dealer just called to let me know they just got more M10R BP in stock.

 

[RMF]

I’m the OP who kicked off this thread. In my search for a M10R-BP I had a number of owners (6+) reach out to me willing to sell theirs (majority were mint condition and were selling to fund an M11 or they had them like-NIB in storage hoping that their rarity would make them in investment someday) asking prices were $8.5k-9.5k. I couldn’t find any US retailers with new BP’s in stock (since that time there have been a couple of mint used ones at dealers showing up but prices are still near $9k) so I ended up just picking up a like-new M10-R in black chrome as it’s price was nearly $3k less than the current market price of a similar condition M10-R BP.  The black paint is nice but I didn’t think it was worth the additional $ just for a finish.  Btw- there are some good buys out there right now for M-10-R and pretty much all of them are still under warranty.

 

[Al Brown]

2 hours ago, RMF said:

The black paint is nice but I didn’t think it was worth the additional $ just for a finish.

In Europe Black Paint M10-R cost just 200 euros more brand new compared to a regular M10-R (silver/black chrome) brand new and I think it was worth every cent.

[Al Brown]

On 1/29/2022 at 8:48 PM, M9reno said:

what was the answer they gave you, if I may ask?

The gist of the answer was just as I described: There are Special Editions and there are STRICTLY LIMITED Special Editions issued since 1975. The latter are numbered and certified.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Al Brown

[Jeff S]

The only limited editions that seem to have always adhered to the advertised numbers are the LHSA versions.  Leica has been known to go for profits.  

Jeff

[M9reno]

7 hours ago, Al Brown said:

The gist of the answer was just as I described: There are Special Editions and there are STRICTLY LIMITED Special Editions issued since 1975. The latter are numbered and certified.

I misunderstood.  You mentioned a reputable Austrian dealer before, as opposed to Wetzlar.  Did they explain where the figure of 2000 comes from in this case, if it's not really limited?  Is it a first batch?

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[Al Brown]

1 hour ago, M9reno said:

I misunderstood.  You mentioned a reputable Austrian dealer before, as opposed to Wetzlar.  Did they explain where the figure of 2000 comes from in this case, if it's not really limited?  Is it a first batch?

Trying to keep it as simple a spossible: M10-R is not from the STRICTLY LIMITED universe, it is a limited run camera with 2000 units planned with a safety fuse to shamelessly make more if the demand would have exceeded the supply (that, it is my educated guess, will surely not happen) as there are no XXXX/2000 numbers on the cameras, nor a certificate hand signed.
No further explanation was given to me by the mothership.
It's all just good marketing. I bought one, they were successful 😁.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Al Brown