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M10R Owners: Is the M11 Worth the Upgrade?


John Smith
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On 1/18/2022 at 12:57 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Plus long exposures and switchable LENR are now a thing on the M camera.

This would be for me THE reason to buy the m11, but somehow there is not much info regarding this.

 

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6 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

This would be for me THE reason to buy the m11, but somehow there is not much info regarding this.

 

What additional information do you need? The maximum shutter speeds are in the technical spec. No practical experience was reported yet, though the recent technical talk had some examples.

 

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3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

What additional information do you need? The maximum shutter speeds are in the technical spec. No practical experience was reported yet, though the recent technical talk had some examples.

 

The specs I have seen. I miss examples/experience from users for either the m10r or m11.

at the moment my camera for long exposure is the gfx50, but it would be great to be able to use the m-system.

for this i am doubting between SL or M.

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2 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

The specs I have seen. I miss examples/experience from users for either the m10r or m11.

at the moment my camera for long exposure is the gfx50, but it would be great to be able to use the m-system.

for this i am doubting between SL or M.

AFAIK, SL has mandatory LENR, while SL2 does not.

I am also looking forward to examples of long exposure with M11.

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1 minute ago, SrMi said:

AFAIK, SL has mandatory LENR, while SL2 does not.

I am also looking forward to examples of long exposure with M11.

To be clear, doubting between SL2(s) or m10r/m11. 

all cams have great specs; long exposure possibilities (upto 16min plus LENR) will be the deciding factor. 
 

 

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On 1/17/2022 at 8:56 PM, John Smith said:

I think a few of the beta testers of the M11 said that it provided only marginal difference from the M10R. I think one test showed that the M11 might have a 1/2 stop difference in noise. The M10R's sensor is unique and was Leica's best lowlight camera before the M11. And there is the 20 MP bump, but if you don't print big . . .  In any case, for those M10R owners who traded in for an M11 or have both cameras, what are your thoughts about upgrading and why?

Those who traded an M10R for an M11 is because they’re in it for the gear. They’ll constantly be buying new stuff. All the time. 
 

some people are into photography and others into gear. Pretty sure they traded the M10 to the 10P and the 10P to the 10R and now the 10R to the M11 and soon they’ll go to the M11P. And on and on it goes. 
 

as far as I’m concerned, if you’re more worried about your photos, there’s really no reason to upgrade any M, unless of course some sort of issue is getting in the way of you making the images you want to make; then of course you change. Any of your M cameras, if they’re working for you now, then they’ll keep working for you. 
 

Every M camera since the M9 has beautiful characteristics that work for different photographers. It depends on the resulting image. What sort of images are you trying to make? What sort of lenses do you use?

They’re all good. Any differences between the M10R and the M11 are academic. I don’t see any reason to “upgrade”. Just put an extra battery in your pocket. Electronic shutter? Nobody is really going to be using that. Aluminum body? Nobody wants that. Everything that matters about taking a photo is basically the same. Both cameras give you amazing raw files you can manipulate to suit your taste. 
 

A significant change for me in terms of every day use would’ve been for the m-shutter to be able to go to 1/8000. Other than that, I think most will just use this in 37MP mode once the “new toy syndrome” wears off, and I guess the only real benefit will be that they’re able to go on the whole day with just 1 battery instead of the tragedy of having to put a small extra one in your pocket. 
 

as far as the metering. People have been using the center weighted metering since the digits Leicas were created and they’ve been making beautiful images. This metering is good, it has only been getting better, in the M10R is accurate, it is very predictable, once you know you’re camera you can pretty much nail the exposure, and the highlight recovery is amazing anyway. So this is another much ado about nothing. 

Edited by Łëïčä
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On 1/18/2022 at 7:01 AM, tappan said:

One reviewer mentioned that with the electronic you will need a tripod because the photos will warp with any movement much like the X1D does.
What does that mean? 

Mark 

Tripod won’t help if what you’re photographing is moving. The camera can be perfectly still but if the subject is swinging a golf club, then the club is going to look like a U. 

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2 minutes ago, Łëïčä said:

Those who traded an M10R for an M11 is because they’re in it for the gear. They’ll constantly be buying new stuff. All the time. 
 

some people are into photography and others into gear. 

Astonishing. A mere seven posts on the board and such phenomenal insight into the community psyche.  I bow to your genius. Truly wonderful contribution to the discussion. Insightful, succinct and utterly inaccurate.  

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25 minutes ago, Łëïčä said:

Tripod won’t help if what you’re photographing is moving. The camera can be perfectly still but if the subject is swinging a golf club, then the club is going to look like a U. 

I have 8TB of images, but not a single image of a swinging golf club 🤣.

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5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I have 8TB of images, but not a single image of a swinging golf club 🤣.

Anything that moves will be warped. 

and that’s just the jelly effect. Not mentioning the nasty banding. People who haven’t used e-shutters will have a rude awakening. 
 

I guess people who want to shoot models at f1.2 in the middle of the day can now do it wide open without filters. 
 

let’s remember this isn’t a Nikon Z9. 
 

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4 minutes ago, Łëïčä said:

Anything that moves will be warped. 

and that’s just the jelly effect. Not mentioning the nasty banding. People who haven’t used e-shutters will have a rude awakening. 
 

I guess people who want to shoot models at f1.2 in the middle of the day can now do it wide open without filters. 
 

let’s remember this isn’t a Nikon Z9. 
 

It is good to warn others about electronic shutter problems if they do not have experience with it. I was joking because "not again that golf club example" :). 

I have experience with the electronic shutter from a1 to X1D. M11's readout speed is entirely usable (as is a7rIV's, apparently). 

It would be nice if M11 could support 12-bit mode for faster readout. 

In addition to the rolling shutter effect (and banding in artificial light), M11's electronic shutter has a longer shutter lag than the mechanical shutter.

 

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8 minutes ago, SrMi said:

It is good to warn others about electronic shutter problems if they do not have experience with it. I was joking because "not again that golf club example" :). 

I have experience with the electronic shutter from a1 to X1D. M11's readout speed is entirely usable (as is a7rIV's, apparently). 

It would be nice if M11 could support 12-bit mode for faster readout. 

In addition to the rolling shutter effect (and banding in artificial light), M11's electronic shutter has a longer shutter lag than the mechanical shutter.

 

All true. 
 

I think in the world of Leica, we should stop using the word “upgrade”. Instead let’s just call it “changing”.
 

Will you be changing your M10 for the M11? 
 

my hope is that Leica figures out a way to keep the M an M and not make it into another mirrorless camera. 
 

having said that I totally see why the M11 should fit more seamlessly with the SL and Q. After all it’s a business and a lot of pros using an SL would like an M as part of their kit and you don’t want the change to be so jarring. 
 

on the other hand, you have to keep the M a legit simple rangefinder for all. Not a simple task. 
 

aluminum and an exposed USB-C port though? Yikes!

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2 minutes ago, Łëïčä said:

All true. 
 

I think in the world of Leica, we should stop using the word “upgrade”. Instead let’s just call it “changing”.
 

Will you be changing your M10 for the M11? 
 

my hope is that Leica figures out a way to keep the M an M and not make it into another mirrorless camera. 
 

having said that I totally see why the M11 should fit more seamlessly with the SL and Q. After all it’s a business and a lot of pros using an SL would like an M as part of their kit and you don’t want the change to be so jarring. 
 

on the other hand, you have to keep the M a legit simple rangefinder for all. Not a simple task. 
 

aluminum and an exposed USB-C port though? Yikes!

I picked up my M11 on the first day. In my book, there are many improvements with M11, which makes upgrading to M11 reasonable. M11 is 100% a digital rangefinder, I don't need another mirrorless camera.

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Just now, SrMi said:

I picked up my M11 on the first day. In my book, there are many improvements with M11, which makes upgrading to M11 reasonable. M11 is 100% a digital rangefinder, I don't need another mirrorless camera.

Changing let’s say. 
 

I don’t see the M11 as an “upgrade” at all. It’s just a different M. 
 

it’s new and people are excited. I get it. 

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12 minutes ago, Łëïčä said:

Changing let’s say. 
 

I don’t see the M11 as an “upgrade” at all. It’s just a different M. 
 

it’s new and people are excited. I get it. 

I own M10-P and M10-R, and I would certainly call M11 an upgrade, no question about it. I am not selling my M10-R, though.

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1 hour ago, Łëïčä said:

Those who traded an M10R for an M11 is because they’re in it for the gear. They’ll constantly be buying new stuff. All the time. 
 

some people are into photography and others into gear. Pretty sure they traded the M10 to the 10P and the 10P to the 10R and now the 10R to the M11 and soon they’ll go to the M11P. And on and on it goes. 
 

as far as I’m concerned, if you’re more worried about your photos, there’s really no reason to upgrade any M, unless of course some sort of issue is getting in the way of you making the images you want to make; then of course you change. Any of your M cameras, if they’re working for you now, then they’ll keep working for you. 
 

Every M camera since the M9 has beautiful characteristics that work for different photographers. It depends on the resulting image. What sort of images are you trying to make? What sort of lenses do you use?

They’re all good. Any differences between the M10R and the M11 are academic. I don’t see any reason to “upgrade”. Just put an extra battery in your pocket. Electronic shutter? Nobody is really going to be using that. Aluminum body? Nobody wants that. Everything that matters about taking a photo is basically the same. Both cameras give you amazing raw files you can manipulate to suit your taste. 
 

A significant change for me in terms of every day use would’ve been for the m-shutter to be able to go to 1/8000. Other than that, I think most will just use this in 37MP mode once the “new toy syndrome” wears off, and I guess the only real benefit will be that they’re able to go on the whole day with just 1 battery instead of the tragedy of having to put a small extra one in your pocket. 
 

as far as the metering. People have been using the center weighted metering since the digits Leicas were created and they’ve been making beautiful images. This metering is good, it has only been getting better, in the M10R is accurate, it is very predictable, once you know you’re camera you can pretty much nail the exposure, and the highlight recovery is amazing anyway. So this is another much ado about nothing. 

You could make the same argument with cars. I know a few guys who get a new car about every year. A little more bells and whistles. A little more horsepower. Maybe a change in the dashboard. Then I know others who've driven the same car for the last ten years because it gets them from A to B and they'd rather spend their money on something else. Maybe an M. To each his own.  

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On 1/17/2022 at 9:52 PM, johnbuckley said:

in other words, I think that, as wonderful as the M10-R is, the M11 delivers sizable, monetizable advantages.

All wishful thinking. The first review right here in the forum says the 18MP files serve no purpose other than being smaller and that the grain is worse and not uniform. Ugly and grainy. 
 

You just want a new toy. That’s all. And it’s okay to want new toys. The 10R is already excellent in low light. 

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6 minutes ago, John Smith said:

You could make the same argument with cars. I know a few guys who get a new car about every year. A little more bells and whistles. A little more horsepower. Maybe a change in the dashboard. Then I know others who've driven the same car for the last ten years because it gets them from A to B and they'd rather spend their money on something else. Maybe an M. To each his own.  

That’s right. And there’s nothing wrong with that Btw. 
 

my civic is 10 years old. It’s the gen 9 so the most boring of all the Civics. But it’s tough as nails. If buy the new one I won’t go into a 3 page post talking about how wonderful the new one is. I’ll just say, I’m buying it because it’s new and I want a new car. It’s fun and I want a new toy and it has apple car play. 
 

but here people go into this rant about how the M11 is so revolutionary when in reality nobody will really see any significant difference between a great photo taken in a 24MP M240 and an M11.

one of the guys commenting here posted an M11 photo of his baby and dog. They were all fuzzy and generic. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

but reading the posts you’d think it’s the best camera ever made in history and it’s So much better than anything before. It’s all so stupid. 

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2 hours ago, Łëïčä said:

That’s right. And there’s nothing wrong with that Btw. 
 

my civic is 10 years old. It’s the gen 9 so the most boring of all the Civics. But it’s tough as nails. If buy the new one I won’t go into a 3 page post talking about how wonderful the new one is. I’ll just say, I’m buying it because it’s new and I want a new car. It’s fun and I want a new toy and it has apple car play. 
 

but here people go into this rant about how the M11 is so revolutionary when in reality nobody will really see any significant difference between a great photo taken in a 24MP M240 and an M11.

one of the guys commenting here posted an M11 photo of his baby and dog. They were all fuzzy and generic. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

but reading the posts you’d think it’s the best camera ever made in history and it’s So much better than anything before. It’s all so stupid. 

It's hard to argue with your thoughts.  

Enjoy your new car.

 

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