Bright area at photos

[Tux4711]

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Hi,

I am new to the forum although I have been a silent reader for some time now. I find the expertise gathered here great and would now like to get in touch with a technical issue as well. I own an M8 and regularly have a brighter exposed area in the bottom corner of photos (see attachment). Sometimes these areas even tend to be reddish. I have a feeling that the likelihood of this occurring increases when I use shorter exposure times. Does anyone know this problem? Is it a defect of the sensor?

Sorry if there is already a post regarding this issue. I have not found anything comparable.

Best regards

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[jankap]

It could be a light leak. Underneath the viewfinder window. Expose the camera to the sun, take an exposure and shield it for a second one. Or keep it to the sun with the lens cap on and without.

Hello by the way!

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[Tux4711]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jankap:

It could be a light leak. Underneath the viewfinder window. Expose the camera to the sun, take an exposure and shield it for a second one. Or keep it to the sun with the lens cap on and without.

Hello by the way!

Hello jankap. Thank you for the interesting hint. Unfortunately, there was not enough sun today and a lamp seems not to be bright enough to reproduce the effect. I hope to try it out in the next few days. If I see the effect on both exposures, which you suggest, then I guess I can proof the leak by covering the area around the viewfinder window in the sun, right?

Do you have any idea how to fix such an issue if it turns right?

[a.noctilux]

Hello Tux4711,

Maybe a simple greasy spread on your sensor.

Had your M8 sensor cleaned recently ?

Have a close look at the top-left of your M8's sensor, close to border.

[84bravo]

Are you using the same lens all the time, or does this happen with different lenses?

 

[jankap]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Have a close look at the top-left of your M8's sensor, close to border.

You are right, it is the top-left side. Near the rangefinder window. With sensor camera it is easier to check than with a film one.

I have never made a wet clean with my cameras, only blower actions. But with a used camera one cannot know.

[Tux4711]

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb a.noctilux:

Hello Tux4711,

Maybe a simple greasy spread on your sensor.

Had your M8 sensor cleaned recently ?

Have a close look at the top-left of your M8's sensor, close to border.

Hello a.noctilux,

No sensor cleaning has been done since I own the camera.I plan to do one in the next few weeks as there are obviously some particles on the sensor.

I just looked at the sensor and could not see any discrepancy with my bare eyes. When I do the cleaning, I will take a closer look....

vor 12 Stunden schrieb 84bravo:

Are you using the same lens all the time, or does this happen with different lenses?

 

Hello 84bravo, 

At the moment I only have the one lens, because I just switched to the M system. Therefore, I can not test it unfortunately.

[84bravo]

20 hours ago, Tux4711 said:

Hello 84bravo, 

At the moment I only have the one lens, because I just switched to the M system. Therefore, I can not test it unfortunately.

You should check the rear element of your lens and see if there is anything odd there. Perhaps a bit of grease or smudge on the rear element. Look around the inside of the camera lens mount to make sure there isn't something loose or obstructing the lens view.

This may not be the problem, but it's an easy thing to rule out before commiting to a trip back to Leica for repair.

Good luck!

[Tux4711]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb 84bravo:

You should check the rear element of your lens and see if there is anything odd there. Perhaps a bit of grease or smudge on the rear element. Look around the inside of the camera lens mount to make sure there isn't something loose or obstructing the lens view.

This may not be the problem, but it's an easy thing to rule out before commiting to a trip back to Leica for repair.

Good luck!

Thank you. I did not notice any abnormality on either the lens or the camera lens mount.

However, I now have the feeling that it is probably the lens that is causing the problem. I was able to reproduce the issue today, although it is not as noticeable in these weather conditions. If I cover all areas on the camera except the lens, the effect still occurs. So it's probably not an issue of the body or the lens mount. The effect only vanishes if I cover the lens.

Nevertheless, I will do a thorough cleaning of the sensor and further tests in sunshine soon.

[a.noctilux]

What is the lens you use ?

Is it LTM lens with adapter ?

[Tux4711]

vor einer Stunde schrieb a.noctilux:

What is the lens you use ?

Is it LTM lens with adapter ?

It is a new Voigtländer Nokton 35mm 1.4.   MC

[a.noctilux]

Strange that the effect (as you wrote above)

"only vanishes if I cover the lens"

⁉️

So when you cover the lens (how) there is no "whiting zone" at bottom of pic ?

[Tux4711]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb a.noctilux:

Strange that the effect (as you wrote above)

"only vanishes if I cover the lens"

⁉️

So when you cover the lens (how) there is no "whiting zone" at bottom of pic ?

Yes. I have covered the lens with the lens cap or with my hand. 
 

As I understood the previous comments, if there would be a light leak somewhere then the white zone would also occur with a covered lens. 

[farnz]

7 hours ago, Tux4711 said:

It is a new Voigtländer Nokton 35mm 1.4.   MC

Hi, I'm not familiar with this particular lens but if it is heavy its weight might be distorting the lens mount slightly and letting some light in.  I had the same with another heavy lens a few years ago and 'fixed' the problem by putting a black velvet hair scrunchy around the base of the lens after it was attached and it blocked the light light leak.  It's not an elegant solution (if this is what's  caused your problem) but it worked.  You could try putting a scrunchy or something similar around the base of your lens to see if it makes a difference.

Pete.

[Tux4711]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb farnz:

Hi, I'm not familiar with this particular lens but if it is heavy its weight might be distorting the lens mount slightly and letting some light in.  I had the same with another heavy lens a few years ago and 'fixed' the problem by putting a black velvet hair scrunchy around the base of the lens after it was attached and it blocked the light light leak.  It's not an elegant solution (if this is what's  caused your problem) but it worked.  You could try putting a scrunchy or something similar around the base of your lens to see if it makes a difference.

Pete.

Thank you, Pete. Since the sun was just coming out, I have experimented for a few minutes. Unfortunately, your advice didn't help either. I even wrapped the entire camera in a blanket, leaving only the front element open (yes, that looked strange 🙂 ). Nevertheless, there is the effect of the white area. I'll check around for another lens to test the effect further.

Thank you so much for all your support so far.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Tux4711

[MikeMyers]

If you are in the USA, call Camera Quest, and you will reach Steven Gandy, who is an expert at Voigtlander lenses.  

Can you visit someone who has a Leica, and take a few shots with their lens?  Maybe ask them to take a few shots with your lens?

Did you buy the lens new, or used, and if new, from a shop?

If you wrap everything in a dark cloth, so only the front of the lens protrudes from the cloth, does this still happen?

Final question - does it do the same thing wide open, or stopped down to the minimum aperture?  Does the white area get brighter or dimmer?

Final, final question - with the blanket, hold the lens in front of the camera, upside down.  Nothing will be in focus, but you can check if the white area shifts to the opposite side.

Final, final, final question - take a time exposure with the lens cap on, make it a long exposure.  See if the white still appears.

[Tux4711]

Hello MikeMyers, Thank you for your questions.

Am 21.1.2022 um 15:20 schrieb MikeMyers:

If you are in the USA, call Camera Quest, and you will reach Steven Gandy, who is an expert at Voigtlander lenses.

I am in Germany. I could certainly also locate an expert here on site. I will look for the right contacts.

Am 21.1.2022 um 15:20 schrieb MikeMyers:

Can you visit someone who has a Leica, and take a few shots with their lens?  Maybe ask them to take a few shots with your lens?

I think that will be my next step. 

Am 21.1.2022 um 15:20 schrieb MikeMyers:

Did you buy the lens new, or used, and if new, from a shop?

I bought the lens new some months ago. This was online, but from a local dealer. That is, I still have warranty and could replace the lens via the dealer relatively easily. However, before that I would have to be sure that it is a problem with the lens. I'll find that out by testing on another camera or another lens on my camera.

Am 21.1.2022 um 15:20 schrieb MikeMyers:

If you wrap everything in a dark cloth, so only the front of the lens protrudes from the cloth, does this still happen?

Yes. Wrapping the camera makes no difference.

Am 21.1.2022 um 15:20 schrieb MikeMyers:

Final question - does it do the same thing wide open, or stopped down to the minimum aperture?  Does the white area get brighter or dimmer?

I can't tell any difference when I change the aperture. It seems to me more a question of exposure time (which of course depends on the aperture). The shorter the exposure, the more likely the white will appear.

Am 21.1.2022 um 15:20 schrieb MikeMyers:

Final, final question - with the blanket, hold the lens in front of the camera, upside down.  Nothing will be in focus, but you can check if the white area shifts to the opposite side.

This is an interesting question. If I hold the lens upside down in front of the camera, the white bar stays at the bottom. If I rotate the entire camera, it also stays in that same area (if I rotate the photo).

Am 21.1.2022 um 15:20 schrieb MikeMyers:

Final, final, final question - take a time exposure with the lens cap on, make it a long exposure.  See if the white still appears.

There is no white if I make long exposures with the cap on.

[pop]

Stand in front of a large mirror and take a shot of yourself, in bright light, of course. Are there any obstructions in front of or close to the front of the lens, such as a camera strap or finger? Do you use a lens hood?

Have a look into the inside the camera. All parts should be a matte black. Are there any shiny or bright parts?

All tests so far seem to exclude stray light entering the camera from anywhere where it's not supposed to enter.

[MikeMyers]

If you turn the lens upside down, and the "white" stays where it was, the internal parts of the lens are not the problem.

If you wrap the body and lens in a dark cloth, so the only opening is the lens glass, and the problem remains, I think that eliminates the lens interface to the camera.

Go to a friend or a Leica store, and try a different M mount lens - if the problem remains, you've now excluded your lens.

 

If there is something inside the camera body that could reflect light, that is still a possibility.

Try a lot of different combinations, longer and shorter shutter settings, and corresponds smaller and larger lens openings.  If the "whiting" is proportional to how long the shutter is open, that might be a useful clue.  

 

If you have a Leica shop nearby, you can try your lens on their camera, and their lens on your camera, and this should isolate the problem to be the lens or the camera - but from what you've already done, turning the lens upside down, with the white remaining at the bottom, I think this eliminates your lens from being the problem.

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[Tux4711]

Thank you for your hints.

Am 23.1.2022 um 12:57 schrieb pop:

Stand in front of a large mirror and take a shot of yourself, in bright light, of course. Are there any obstructions in front of or close to the front of the lens, such as a camera strap or finger? Do you use a lens hood?

I tried that and I didn't notice anything. I have already made tests with and without lens hood and with and without IR filter. If the problem occurs, it will be in any of the mentioned configurations.

Am 23.1.2022 um 12:57 schrieb pop:

Have a look into the inside the camera. All parts should be a matte black. Are there any shiny or bright parts?

Am 23.1.2022 um 12:59 schrieb MikeMyers:

If there is something inside the camera body that could reflect light, that is still a possibility.

Except of the focus mechanics at the top, all parts inside the camera are matte black.

Am 23.1.2022 um 12:59 schrieb MikeMyers:

If you have a Leica shop nearby, you can try your lens on their camera, and their lens on your camera, and this should isolate the problem to be the lens or the camera - but from what you've already done, turning the lens upside down, with the white remaining at the bottom, I think this eliminates your lens from being the problem.

That will be my next step, but it will take a little longer. In any case, I will report here when I have new findings.

PS: Yesterday I was out with the M and took wonderful photos without the effect being on a single shot. However, it was a cloudy day and I did not need short exposure times.