arogall Posted January 16, 2022 Share #1 Posted January 16, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Glad to be part of this forum and I am looking forward to building a strong collection. That said, I made my first foray in to vintage and collectable leica gear recently with a 35mm Summicron V1 (black) with a serial number that places it in 1960. Would love some input as most of what I have seen from this time is the chrome version of the lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328606-first-dive-in-to-collecting-would-love-your-opinions/?do=findComment&comment=4358076'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 Hi arogall, Take a look here First dive in to collecting, would love your opinions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Pyrogallol Posted January 16, 2022 Share #2 Posted January 16, 2022 Welcome. A very nice start and very usable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted January 16, 2022 Share #3 Posted January 16, 2022 What do you plan on collecting? Lenses? Bodies? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted January 16, 2022 Share #4 Posted January 16, 2022 It seems a repaint one... needs better photos. However, best wishes... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 16, 2022 Share #5 Posted January 16, 2022 49 minutes ago, sabears said: It seems a repaint one... Well, the plastic container looks original to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arogall Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted January 16, 2022 55 minutes ago, sabears said: It seems a repaint one... needs better photos. However, best wishes... I HIGHLY doubt it. The original container came with it and I have other lenses that are in the same condition from the same seller, all owned by one person Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 16, 2022 Share #7 Posted January 16, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, original containers don't mind what you put into them. A seller's task is to sell. Have you ever seen an originally black painted lens? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arogall Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share #8 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, UliWer said: Yes, original containers don't mind what you put into them. A seller's task is to sell. Have you ever seen an originally black painted lens? Not in person. Under the circumstances it was purchased I'm very confident it is original. But out of curiosity what are you seeing that makes you think that and I'll look in to it. Here are a few more pics Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 16, 2022 by arogall 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328606-first-dive-in-to-collecting-would-love-your-opinions/?do=findComment&comment=4358405'>More sharing options...
cary Posted January 16, 2022 Share #9 Posted January 16, 2022 Collect what you like and interest you. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 17, 2022 Share #10 Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, arogall said: Not in person. Under the circumstances it was purchased I'm very confident it is original. But out of curiosity what are you seeing that makes you think that and I'll look in to it. Here are a few more pics Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Black paint canadian Summicrons 35 of this age do exist : Lager displays a very close one (s/n 1.744.613), with some distinguishing details in accordance : the feet scale in red, the "LENS MADE IN CANADA" writing at the base, the focus lever (hardly visible in the above pic... but seems to me that its unlocking "nail" isn't painted, like in Lager's item) ; the further "Canada" writing isn't visible in Lager's pic... but for the position of the pic itself... indeed is a "redundant" writing which is typical also on the Canadian Summilux 35s. Ther is another detail that is worth to verify : the base flange looks to be unpainted (see pic above) , meaning that it can be a screw-to-bayonet adapter mounted at factory... in this case, it ought to have a tiny securing screw along its diameter... probably under the Lens Made in Canada writing : if also this detail is coincident, I'd say that there is strong evidence that your lens is fully original (*)... the paint looks indeed in excellent shape... too fine for a 60+ years old lens ? I don't know, but if it was repainted, surely a very finely made job. (*) I've a residual question mark about the plastic red dot... some expert on the matter can be of help... Edited January 17, 2022 by luigi bertolotti 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arogall Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share #11 Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 58 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said: Black paint canadian Summicrons 35 of this age do exist : Lager displays a very close one (s/n 1.744.613), with some distinguishing details in accordance : the feet scale in red, the "LENS MADE IN CANADA" writing at the base, the focus lever (hardly visible in the above pic... but seems to me that its unlocking "nail" isn't painted, like in Lager's item) ; the further "Canada" writing isn't visible in Lager's pic... but for the position of the pic itself... indeed is a "redundant" writing which is typical also on the Canadian Summilux 35s. Ther is another detail that is worth to verify : the base flange looks to be unpainted (see pic above) , meaning that it can be a screw-to-bayonet adapter mounted at factory... in this case, it ought to have a tiny securing screw along its diameter... probably under the Lens Made in Canada writing : if also this detail is coincident, I'd say that there is strong evidence that your lens is fully original (*)... the paint looks indeed in excellent shape... too fine for a 60+ years old lens ? I don't know, but if it was repainted, surely a very finely made job. (*) I've a residual question mark about the plastic red dot... some expert on the matter can be of help... Thank you so much for the reply. I’ll look in to these points further when I get home tonight. I also noticed there was one that sold this last November at the Leitz photographia auction. It looks to be consistent with mine, and the serial numbers are 269 apart. It would also place my serial number between the example I posted from Leitz auction and the one from Lager that you mentioned. I’ve added a pic of that one below. Seems to give further evidence to it being correct. I am also going to reach out to Leica to see if they can verify it based off the serial number. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 17, 2022 by arogall Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328606-first-dive-in-to-collecting-would-love-your-opinions/?do=findComment&comment=4359190'>More sharing options...
yeahyoung Posted January 17, 2022 Share #12 Posted January 17, 2022 19 hours ago, arogall said: Not in person. Under the circumstances it was purchased I'm very confident it is original. But out of curiosity what are you seeing that makes you think that and I'll look in to it. Here are a few more pics Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The quality of the paint fill and the font (e.g., the "Canada") looks off to me. Far from typical Leica quality. Try to find a few genuine lenses of the same period and compare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeahyoung Posted January 17, 2022 Share #13 Posted January 17, 2022 23 hours ago, arogall said: Glad to be part of this forum and I am looking forward to building a strong collection. That said, I made my first foray in to vintage and collectable leica gear recently with a 35mm Summicron V1 (black) with a serial number that places it in 1960. Would love some input as most of what I have seen from this time is the chrome version of the lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Also, the condition of the case doest not match the condition of the lens at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 17, 2022 Share #14 Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) Hi and welcome to the forum. My initial thought from looking at the first image was 'repaint' as it looked to be in far to good nick but the second set reversed that thought completely and to my very inexpert eyes it looks genuine. Even if it does turn out to be a repaint it's a lovely thing to have but I sincerely hope you do have a bona-fide original B-P example. Hopefully a few vintage lens specialists will be able to offer something more concrete for you. Philip. Edited January 17, 2022 by pippy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 17, 2022 Share #15 Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, yeahyoung said: The quality of the paint fill and the font (e.g., the "Canada") looks off to me. Far from typical Leica quality. Try to find a few genuine lenses of the same period and compare. Here's the "Canada" of my Summilux 35, same factory of course and of no distant age (1.777.xxx) red feet : imho, fonts look identical - see "d" "n" ... hair splitting, maybe a little diference in "a" (ought to see it horizontal in the black Summicron) : this one is surely original...in my hands for +35 years , when those items were traded simply as "used lenses") Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It has NOT the plastic red dot...just the red-painted... but is a Summilux (the question of possible factory SM adapter doesn't enter in the matter) and, just as an example, I saw Summilux 35 older than my (1.765.xxx) with the plastic dot, and older ones (2.061.xxx) with the red painted dot... not a definitve argument, it looks... and the Auction item too has the plastic dot and the unpainted flange Edited January 17, 2022 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It has NOT the plastic red dot...just the red-painted... but is a Summilux (the question of possible factory SM adapter doesn't enter in the matter) and, just as an example, I saw Summilux 35 older than my (1.765.xxx) with the plastic dot, and older ones (2.061.xxx) with the red painted dot... not a definitve argument, it looks... and the Auction item too has the plastic dot and the unpainted flange ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328606-first-dive-in-to-collecting-would-love-your-opinions/?do=findComment&comment=4359532'>More sharing options...
yeahyoung Posted January 17, 2022 Share #16 Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said: Here's the "Canada" of my Summilux 35, canadian of course and of no distant age (1.777.xxx) : imho, fonts look identical - see "d" "n" ... hair splitting, maybe a little diference in "a" (ought to see it horizontal in the black Summicron) : this one is surely original...in my hands for +35 years , when those items were traded simply as "used lenses") Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It has NOT the plastic red dot...just the red-painted... but is a Summilux (the question of possible factory SM adapter doesn't enter in the matter) but, just as an example, I saw Summilux 35 older than my (1.765.xxx) with the plastic dot, and older ones (2.061.xxx) with the red painted dot... not a definitve argument, it looks... Thanks. I see. The "Canada" here looks much cleaner though. To be honest I don't know what the quality of the paint filling is supposed to look like in those early black paint lenses. Is it supposed to be even or a bit rough? Should it be perfectly filled within the engravings, or a little bit spill on the edges is normal? I don't have reference so I couldn't tell. It just looked a bit off to me: It does not look like an aged black paint lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 17, 2022 Share #17 Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, yeahyoung said: Thanks. I see. The "Canada" here looks much cleaner though. To be honest I don't know what the quality of the paint filling is supposed to look like in those early black paint lenses. Is it supposed to be even or a bit rough? Should it be perfectly filled within the engravings, or a little bit spill on the edges is normal? I don't have reference so I couldn't tell. It just looked a bit off to me: It does not look like an aged black paint lens. That's true from a first sight... "too fine" ; even if Leica would confirm that this was sold as a BP lens, rhe possibility of a rework (well made... Factory ? Leitz NY lab ?) does exist... the only way COULD be an in depth analisys of the varnish... not an easy task but here we have people also very knowledged on this matter. About the "Canada" engraving... I made a typo...., my one is 1.776.xxx... I have pictures of some others (Summilux) : 1.777 with CANADA (capital font like at the base,) 1.778 the same...and 2.060 again with "Canada" 😁 Ontario factory enjoyed a certain freedom... Edited January 17, 2022 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 17, 2022 Share #18 Posted January 17, 2022 Does anybody know whether the black painted version has a different metal mount? The silver Summicron was made of rather light material. Was the black painted one heavier? When I see the photos in #1 and #8 I get the impression of a black anodized version - though anodized lenses were introduced only more than 10 years later. For me it looks much more like my anodized 35 Summilux from 1980 than the black painted Summicron from 1960 in #11. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 17, 2022 Share #19 Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, UliWer said: Does anybody know whether the black painted version has a different metal mount? The silver Summicron was made of rather light material. Was the black painted one heavier? Dunno at all... my 8 element Summicron is a chrome Wetzlar 1.971.229 , with factory BM adapter, oldstyle small red plastic dot (on the flange, not like in the above depicted Canadian items) .. weight as for specs - 149-150g no caps on Edited January 17, 2022 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arogall Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share #20 Posted January 18, 2022 Just wanted to thank everybody for their replies and interest. I've learned so much more about the nuance of these lenses in this thread than I could find prior to purchasing it. I was able to speak with two pretty well known authorities on the subject who were able to confirm it is authentic and original =). Thanks again for the education Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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