Kim Dahl Posted January 19, 2022 Share #81 Posted January 19, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) It may well be that it is the cheapest. BUT I have for about 70000 dkr (9300 €) only a camera and 3 lenses and accessories. I do not think it is a low price and if Leica has decided to stop then it is a lot of money. All that nonsense about the camera being the same as when I bought it. I do not buy it. That Leica does not say anything about a future about APSC means that if I want to sell and buy another Leica or another brand that my equipment today has a very low price. What we are asking for here is that Leica say whether they are coming up with new or APSC is over. Used prices are already very low. You also see very low prices for new products. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2022 Posted January 19, 2022 Hi Kim Dahl, Take a look here Looks like bad news for hopes on CL2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
aksclix Posted January 19, 2022 Share #82 Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said: It may well be that it is the cheapest. BUT I have for about 70000 dkr (9300 €) only a camera and 3 lenses and accessories. I do not think it is a low price and if Leica has decided to stop then it is a lot of money. All that nonsense about the camera being the same as when I bought it. I do not buy it. That Leica does not say anything about a future about APSC means that if I want to sell and buy another Leica or another brand that my equipment today has a very low price. What we are asking for here is that Leica say whether they are coming up with new or APSC is over. Used prices are already very low. You also see very low prices for new products. Resale value sucks for many Leica products anyway… S007 is now available for around a 41/2 USD compared to introductory price of nearly $20,000 5 years ago… even the SL2’s resale value is 2000-2500 lower than retail price for a new one. I got my CL Paul smith from the used market (and the s007).. the current APS-C lineup from Leica is pretty old and other competitive brands have really good options.. so the prices for TL2 and CL also had to be lowered somewhat.. I still have hopes for a CL2.. I tend to think that no news is better than bad news 😌 Edited January 19, 2022 by aksclix 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtwo Posted January 19, 2022 Share #83 Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Kim Dahl said: It may well be that it is the cheapest. BUT I have for about 70000 dkr (9300 €) only a camera and 3 lenses and accessories. I do not think it is a low price and if Leica has decided to stop then it is a lot of money. All that nonsense about the camera being the same as when I bought it. I do not buy it. That Leica does not say anything about a future about APSC means that if I want to sell and buy another Leica or another brand that my equipment today has a very low price. What we are asking for here is that Leica say whether they are coming up with new or APSC is over. Used prices are already very low. You also see very low prices for new products. It’s a very difficult time to manage any company, especially a global one with a market position like Leica, that had politically driven tariffs enacted, during a pandemic. We’re probably at least a year away from resolving supply chain/chip availability issues. They may not know if the CL or other products are viable yet. One would think however, if there is a market for $740 EVF’s, then there is probably a market for an APSC body given the number of lenses out there. I agree, no news is good news right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2022 Share #84 Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, aksclix said: Resale value sucks for many Leica products anyway… S007 is now available for around a 41/2 USD compared to introductory price of nearly $20,000 5 years ago… even the SL2’s resale value is 2000-2500 lower than retail price for a new one. I got my CL Paul smith from the used market (and the s007).. the current APS-C lineup from Leica is pretty old and other competitive brands have really good options.. so the prices for TL2 and CL also had to be lowered somewhat.. I still have hopes for a CL2.. I tend to think that no news is better than bad news 😌 Welcome to the digital world... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2022 Share #85 Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Kim Dahl said: I do not buy it. But you did... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksclix Posted January 19, 2022 Share #86 Posted January 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, jaapv said: Welcome to the digital world... 😂 I see what you did… did film gear not depreciate though? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2022 Share #87 Posted January 19, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hardly - My M6 Classic is worth three times what I bought it for, new old stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksclix Posted January 19, 2022 Share #88 Posted January 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, jaapv said: Hardly - My M6 Classic is worth three times what I bought it for, new old stock. That’s great! I’ll get on the film bandwagon in a few months Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted January 20, 2022 Share #89 Posted January 20, 2022 But film is crazy expensive now One roll of 35mm Tri-X is 13€ now !! Add 28€ for processing and HD scan. Add 7€ more for prints 1.13 to 1.33 euro per shot. It will be cheaper to shoot instax wide 😅 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted January 20, 2022 Share #90 Posted January 20, 2022 Digital depreciation is your digital film cost. However if you shoot the hell of it, digital is really really cheap. Even better, like stock market, you never lose or win anything until you sell it !! Cure you GAS and voila. Free photos forever (until the electronics die, which can be in 10-20 years) Shoot whatever fancy you. Any hobby is costly, that’s why you have a job to pay for it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted January 20, 2022 Share #91 Posted January 20, 2022 By the way CL and TL2 being the cheapest real Leica, their depreciation in absolute value is also the lowest. Just buy a brand new SL2 then resell it, you’ll lose more than the CL new value. If and hypothetically if, CL would be the last APS-C it will hold a tremendous value forever. Look at X series cameras their value will hold for a very long time. Buy one used, shoot with it for a year then you can resell it at the very same price or more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted January 20, 2022 Share #92 Posted January 20, 2022 It is surprising this discussion is so grumpy. For a bunch of people who like, own and use the CL, its a bit odd. Like others, I like the CL - for its size and quality, and while not an APS kind of guy (bigger sensor = better), it keeps impressing with its quality. And the lenses are lovely, and you can put a whole host of other lenses on it. The frustration voiced here is likely a combination of worry about being frozen out of a clear upgrade/future path, and also the (typical) Leica silence. They (and Hasselblad) are famous for this - I wouldn't make much out of that, its just the way they are. Its truly their corporate culture - they just don't tip their hands. As to lack of a future path, some of us have owned gear that is not currently made for years. Just because they stop improving it doesn't mean it still isn't good. Anyone shooting a film Leica or Rollei or Hassy V... ? All still fine cameras. And the L lenses will be usable somewhere. One could read the tea leaves and figure the CL is done, but its hard to see only a future for their wonderful lenses only on SLs. But maybe... Some time ago, asked the question if anyone has checked the image circle on these lenses - might there be more "room" than the APS size sensor? Likely not, but one never knows. Leica has made tough calls in the past about stopping a direction or an approach: remember the DMR? And the M8 left one with an odd taste - great in some ways, limited in others. It seems their strategic direction is much more on target these days - if anything, they may be stretched too thin. I'd rather see CL2 than another S, but they speak to their own gods, not to us. Lets hope something comes forth. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted January 20, 2022 Share #93 Posted January 20, 2022 If Leica will release Q3 in 2022. I doubt that CL2 will find a spot this year. Signing with Sony for their 60MP is like signing with the devil. You have to commit with a minimum numbers of sensor bought. It may be logical to see an M11 followed by a Q3 then SL3 in rapid succession. Just to honour the quantity contract of 60MP sensors with Sony Semicon. So no room left for CL2 for now. We’ll see at the end of 2022 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalLeicanator Posted January 20, 2022 Share #94 Posted January 20, 2022 3 hours ago, nicci78 said: If Leica will release Q3 in 2022. I doubt that CL2 will find a spot this year. Signing with Sony for their 60MP is like signing with the devil. You have to commit with a minimum numbers of sensor bought. It may be logical to see an M11 followed by a Q3 then SL3 in rapid succession. Just to honour the quantity contract of 60MP sensors with Sony Semicon. So no room left for CL2 for now. We’ll see at the end of 2022 nicci78! Man, I love your optimism! Louis I think Jono already poured a 60 gallon ice bucket on the idea of a CL-2 on one of the many threads devoted to this topic. It was a small comment, but it led me to believe the line was dead in the water. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 20, 2022 Share #95 Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) If Leica is not coming with an APSC any longer; I am not going to move to another Leica system if this is, indeed, what Leica is expecting from us! I keep my excellent CL till it dies, and I still have my T (with Visoflex) that works perfectly fine, as a backup. My lens lineup is very well for me, also. Besides my TL lenses, I also have half a dozen of manual Nikkors that I love using with both CL and T. If I need any more lenses in the future, Sigma looks very attractive to me; and, there are also other APSC camera brands that are excellent! I am not interested in Q with a fixed 28mm lens; I would not buy any Leica anymore! I am sure, I am not the only person to reach this conclusion! If this is what Leica wants; this is what Leica gets! 🤗🤣 Edited January 20, 2022 by Louis 5 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickP Posted January 20, 2022 Share #96 Posted January 20, 2022 Louis, You are not alone my friend. The Present rendition of the CL is more than adequate for my needs. The new M11 is overkill in my opinion, but then again, I am no longer working as a professional photographer that would generate the need for a $10,000 camera body. I am pretty sure that this CL will outlast me, given my age. I do not miss full frame, built in IBIS, and definitely do not need 60 a megapixel sensor. I enjoy my CL and do not care if a CL 2 comes along. Rick 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SugarBubble Posted January 21, 2022 Share #97 Posted January 21, 2022 I am getting an M11, keeping my CL, and selling my SL2... I want the M11 to go full into the rangefinder experience. I will keep the CL to have a tiny second body to carry if I don't feel like hauling around $18K M11+lens combo (insurance is pretty cheap though, 260 bucks a year in Maryland). I never liked the size of the SL2, my bad for not being honest with myself, its not just the camera, its the lenses... Those M mount lenses are even smaller than the TL lenses... Live and learn. I hope you guys all keep enjoying taking pictures. I am retired now and plan (post covid) to travel extensively with a rangefinder and a nifty 50 as my main gear. I really think the M11 is going to be my favorite camera of all time, but if not, I will just sell it :) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 21, 2022 Share #98 Posted January 21, 2022 If you like manual focusing, you would be very happy with M11. It you do street photography and reportage, AF is a must. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted January 21, 2022 Share #99 Posted January 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Louis said: If you like manual focusing, you would be very happy with M11. It you do street photography and reportage, AF is a must. If that's true, I wonder how Henri Cartier-Bresson and all those reporters of the 1920s to 1970s ever made any photographs. I wonder how I made any street photographs and reportage work when I had my photo business, since I almost always use manual focus even with my AF capable cameras. I guess there are some things which shall remain a mystery... G 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 21, 2022 Share #100 Posted January 21, 2022 6 hours ago, ramarren said: If that's true, I wonder how Henri Cartier-Bresson and all those reporters of the 1920s to 1970s ever made any photographs. I wonder how I made any street photographs and reportage work when I had my photo business, since I almost always use manual focus even with my AF capable cameras. I guess there are some things which shall remain a mystery... G Ahhhhh. Godfrey; always to find something for contradicting someone! 😂😂😂 I know for many years, what a great photographer you are and you can take a shot even with your eyes close! lol You really don’t need to compare yourself with HCB ; I am also shooting in the street every day with MF and AF, as i did during the film era! But now we are living in a completely different era ( maybe not you! ), and we have different tools for different situations to make our photography easier, and more specially in action photography! Take it easy, my friend! 🤗😂 6 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.