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Looks like bad news for hopes on CL2


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1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

Agree. Now the M11 launch is done, let’s see if Stefan Daniels has the ball$ to come out from behind the furniture and tell the Leica community what their plans are for the APSC line.

Agree. I'm still keeping my M240 but have budgeted myself for the CL2 (bought a few TL Lens recently together with a T - I am pleased with the results of the T - for street photography)

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Yah, not sure how they got there.

On the Leica USA site, it's still easy to navigate to the TL cameras.   However, still pretty sure the line is dead in the water.  The next iPhone will have a 48MP sensor and that my friends will likely kill ALL APS-Cs (and some full frame as well).

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11 minutes ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

The next iPhone will have a 48MP sensor and that my friends will likely kill ALL APS-Cs (and some full frame as well).

For average social media photography of drooling kids and food they eat, sure. 

And if you purchased APS-C camera or even FF for it, it was overkill at very begining.

But if you are in more advanced than snaps of your still life photography, phones can't kill it at all.

Also, 48MP on tiny iPhone sensors is total scam. Nobody has real 48MP sensor even with m43. 

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I can't help think that Leica should keep a "budget" option at hand, a CL2 would be a great choice...unless we raise the bar a begin considering the SL2 the "budget" friendly (looking at prices, and if APS-C line is fully discontinued, this will be amongst the lowest costs Leicas).  

Edited by pocholin
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7 hours ago, pocholin said:

I can't help think that Leica should keep a "budget" option at hand, a CL2 would be a great choice...unless we raise the bar a begin considering the SL2 the "budget" friendly (looking at prices, and if APS-C line is fully discontinued, this will be amongst the lowest costs Leicas).  

Consider all the products manufactured / marketed by Leica and Leica's relatively fewer resources compared to e.g. those of Canon, Nikon et al, ... and how thinly Leica's resources (in the broadest sense) are spread over all their products. The Leica M11 would have likely taken c. 3 years just to reach  prototype stage; Jono Slack has just spent 11 months testing the M11 prior to its launch. A replacement APS-C ICL camera would likely require just as much time and a massive commitment to spend the $$/€€ and considerable cooperation from third party component manufacturers / suppliers   ...  it's not just a matter of keeping 'a budget option at hand' ... it's time and more time and $$/€€ and sufficient potential sales to justify the development effort. 

The future for Leica appears to be full frame ... it's what they're good at.  Smaller format sales will likely emanate from Leica badge engineered Panasonic compact fixed lens models ... which have sold in larger numbers than the TL / CL ICL APS-C series.  APS-C is now dead in the water for Leica and has been for a long time. 

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My resistance is that I don’t want to carry around a brick like the SL2 and much prefer the size and weight of the CL and it’s lenses.

What saddens me more is that Stefan Daniels doesn’t have the balls to tell CL and TL owners what the APSC roadmap is. If you make a woolly statement to visitors to Leica about there being no future for the APSC line then you expect at least some information. Do they stop making TL lenses? Do they sell the designs/license them to Sigma? Do they plan on making any further firmware updates? Do they plan on sharing the camera body space with a company like Sigma?

I guess with Mr. Daniels not thinking it’s worth informing owners then I should simply just sell up and move on to Fuji!

Edited by Le Chef
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I gave up to wait for CL2, instead I bought SL2 for the „big things“ and will keep my CL for family and street. Both having same mount plus using M-lenses mainly I am flexible. And the SL2 is an encouraging beast…

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb Le Chef:

I guess with Mr. Daniels not thinking it’s worth informing owners then I should simply just sell up and move on to Fuji!

Think twice about that. I thought the same, but after 1 year I just have returned from Fuji X100V to the CL...

It feels like coming back home

Edited by AndreasB
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21 minutes ago, ynp said:

If Leica make a very light full frame body, similar to the leaked Q3, then it will be a replacement for my CL and a new home for my TL lenses. While there is nothing available,  will stick to my CL. 

There was a discussion at Leica Duke St on November 11 during the Leica Society's members' visit regarding the number of fictitious / false Leica rumours published by Leica Rumours ... people believe what they want to believe ... Leica Rumours requires the publicity ... And it was not TLS members who remarked on the number of false rumours .... it was Leica UK ... Above 'If' is just an 'if' ;) 

Edited by dkCambridgeshire
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12 hours ago, Le Chef said:

My resistance is that I don’t want to carry around a brick like the SL2 and much prefer the size and weight of the CL and it’s lenses.

What saddens me more is that Stefan Daniels doesn’t have the balls to tell CL and TL owners what the APSC roadmap is. If you make a woolly statement to visitors to Leica about there being no future for the APSC line then you expect at least some information. Do they stop making TL lenses? Do they sell the designs/license them to Sigma? Do they plan on making any further firmware updates? Do they plan on sharing the camera body space with a company like Sigma?

I guess with Mr. Daniels not thinking it’s worth informing owners then I should simply just sell up and move on to Fuji!

If they have cancelled it I would think Leica will probably just move on without commenting. To say "we are cancelling our APSC line" would be essentially admitting failure. I wonder if we'll see a convergence of three things people seem to be asking for here - EVF M camera/ILC Q/CL2. A full frame CL2 with the sensor from the M11 would still have fantastic resolution even when cropped using TL lenses.

By all accounts the Q is one of the best selling lines and I'd say its popularity was probably the final nail in the coffin for the X. I know the CL has a devoted user base (I love how small and light mine is when I pick it up after a day using my SL2-S) but Leica don't get more cash off people who REALLY like the camera. They need to shift units and if the APSC line was shifting enough units to make money then they would not cancel it.

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12 minutes ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

And it was not TLS members who remarked on the number of false rumours .... it was Leica UK ... Above 'If' is just an 'if' ;) 

I have stopped worrying about things I cannot control.” IF is just an If “ -brilliant!!!

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