Shutter noise in M11

[jack-tucker]

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vor 14 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

Note that we are discussing the ‘delay’ because we know that theoretically it should exist and not because someone noticed it and it bothered them.

Sure, in the real world, there is no need to discuss this at all. The M11 must be a great camera, thats it. 

However, as I have mentioned earlier, I do notice the delay of the shutter, in the video posted here. I am discussing something I actually noticed, not something that theoretically exists... But again, it actually does not bother me as I am happy with my M10P. 

I definitely don't want to spoil the fun for those who are happy with their M11. If it doesn't bother them, then all good.

[elmars]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jack-tucker:

I do notice the delay of the shutter

You can hear a delay of 0,017 sec? I think what You really hear is a different, more complex shutter operation.

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[jack-tucker]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb elmars:

You can hear a delay of 0,017 sec? I think what You really hear is a different, more complex shutter operation.

That's another way to put it: A more complex shutter operation. But no, I can not hear it, I can see it. I am sure you can, too. Just watch the video.

EDIT: SORRY, I JUST SAW YOU PUT UP ANOTHER VIDEO YOURSELF. SO YOU CAN COMPARE IT BETTER THAN I COULD.

HOWEVER, WHAT I SEE IS: M11: Finger goes down, immediately after you can hear the click and after the high pitched sound (slightly scratching sound) which sounds similar to the rewind sound of the M8, but much much shorter... All together not unpleasant but definitely noticeably. 

And I must say, I would not care about the volume of the shutter sound. Not on the street, neither in most other situations. But the shutter of the M11 seems to me less prompt as compared to M10P, M240 or any analog M I know. I could easily life with a short delay after the shot (like with the M8 or of course any Film M). I could also life with the noise level of any M I know. Buy this "delay" would take me some time to get used to, to say the least...

For those who can not notice it, it doesn't matter of course. Perfect.

Edited January 18, 2022 by jack-tucker

[sebben]

All I can say is regardless of all the measurements of shutter delays, response times  on paper as it were that there is a noticeable difference between the SL and the Leica M10 when it comes to the moment the camera captures after the shutter is released. 
 

In my mind this is because on the SL the shutter always has to close before it can open again to take the photo versus the M10 which just has to open the shutter. Since the M11 now operates like the SL I cannot see how it would be any different. 

[elmars]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jack-tucker:

But the shutter of the M11 seems to me less prompt as compared to M10P, M240 or any analog M I know.

The decisive word is "seems". So it seems to me first hearing the shutter sound and comparing it to the M10. But: 1. After a half year of practical use I cannot determine a practical diffrerence. 2. Leica says reaction time is equal. 3. Sean Reid an Jono Slack say it is very, very close due to their non scientific testing. So my conclusion is: The complex shutter noise makes us think there is delay where no delay is. But only scientific testing can proove this.

[tom0511]

I have shot stopwatch with M10r and M11 to find out if there is a difference. The problem is that human reaction time factors in.

Overall my result is, that if there is a difference in shutter lag, than it is very very small. One time I am faster with the M11, next time with M10r. Maybe I am more often slightly faster with the M10r? I would have to do statistics, but its too boaring to shoot stopwatches (on my iphone).

Its more clear when shooting in live view, where one can even hear aand feel that there is a little longer lag when using the M10r in live view.

And yes, I also feel the M10r to be more lick "klack" and the M11 a little more "klackack".

 

[SrMi]

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6 hours ago, sebben said:

All I can say is regardless of all the measurements of shutter delays, response times  on paper as it were that there is a noticeable difference between the SL and the Leica M10 when it comes to the moment the camera captures after the shutter is released. 
 

In my mind this is because on the SL the shutter always has to close before it can open again to take the photo versus the M10 which just has to open the shutter. Since the M11 now operates like the SL I cannot see how it would be any different. 

No M11 user notices an additional delay when compared to M10. It seems that only people who do not own M11 are bothered by the delay of 0.017ms.

[sebben]

Maybe but I can notice the difference between the SL and the M and the SL was supposed to be super fast! Maybe the M11 has improved on this 

[BJohn]

I am glad that the topic was cleared by some Leica employment in the tech talk, @SrMi has a nice summary on that in this thread:

Hence I will conclude from my humble perspective: I was right about a decrease in the shutter lag but I highly believe that I won't realise that 0,10s of an additional shutter lag. Still have to decide whether the M11 is a buy or not, but I really think that this is acceptable. In that talk they also stated that the M is about the rangefinder and the development of such is going to continue which sounded to me very trustable and promising! With all the other improvements due to having more room as the old metering is gone also benefits the M11. I have to say sorry for being wrong and a bit disappointed in the beginning to @elmars. But that tech talk at least regarding my uncertainties was helpful.

[Daedalus2000]

Apologies if this has been mentioned in this thread, I did not have time to read all of it, but I want to share something about the shutter lag. 

Using mechanical shutter, I observe that if I have the live view on (no EVF on the camera), the shutter lag is larger than not having the live view on, i.e. the live view creates its own incremental lag. Is this something that other people have observed? 

[elmars]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb BJohn:

I have to say sorry for being wrong and a bit disappointed in the beginning to @elmars.

No need to be sorry. We are here for discussion about vital matters.