SrMi Posted January 18, 2022 Share #321 Posted January 18, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just now, neekon said: You're welcome, i did mention that i would update after the weekend of shooting. Haha, ill be sure to pass that message along. it might help, it might not, but its definitely something that could be added in firmware and at least give the option. As you said, it will help most with shutter shock. Additionally, i agree that an option to leave the shutter open on shutdown would be welcomed, although idk if its technically possible. To clarify: I have tested and have not observed any shutter shock (1/60 sec, 135mm lens). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 Hi SrMi, Take a look here Why I will not be getting a M11.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
neekon Posted January 18, 2022 Share #322 Posted January 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, SrMi said: To clarify: I have tested and have not observed any shutter shock (1/60 sec, 135mm lens). I have not observed any shutter shock either, mostly shooting with the 35APO. I do think the EFCS shouldve been included. and might still be in a firmware update. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 18, 2022 Share #323 Posted January 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, neekon said: I have not observed any shutter shock either, mostly shooting with the 35APO. I do think the EFCS shouldve been included. and might still be in a firmware update. I would like it too, but only with an automatic switch to a mechanical shutter around 1/300 sec. It may not be that high priority if it does not help with image quality. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neekon Posted January 18, 2022 Share #324 Posted January 18, 2022 48 minutes ago, SrMi said: I would like it too, but only with an automatic switch to a mechanical shutter around 1/300 sec. It may not be that high priority if it does not help with image quality. Maybe, it likely is low on the priority list though Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert irvin Posted January 19, 2022 Share #325 Posted January 19, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 2:09 AM, neekon said: I just find the placement of the SD card slot idiotic. The battery is weather sealed, to me it makes sense to apply the same protection to the SD card. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neekon Posted January 19, 2022 Share #326 Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, robert irvin said: The battery is weather sealed, to me it makes sense to apply the same protection to the SD card. There are plenty of other cameras on the market with weather sealed SD card slots that dont require the SD card to be under the battery. the Q2 is a good example Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 19, 2022 Share #327 Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, neekon said: There are plenty of other cameras on the market with weather sealed SD card slots that dont require the SD card to be under the battery. the Q2 is a good example Its a little annoying to have to pull the battery, which I suspect will bug me a lot more after I get a grip, unless I just give in and buy the Leica version, as assuming there's no battery door, any grip will also have to be removed to get to the card. That said, I think if you pull the battery, look inside and note how much of the body is devoted to it, then consider all the mechanism and optics required for the RF. Now add in the shutter mechanism which is absent in the Q (as its a leaf). From there you have to find an alternate location that you insert something that's fairly deep and wide. Not a lot of free space lying around. So my guess, is that from a packaging standpoint, it was the most logical spot to put the card. It might have been possible to put a door on the side of the camera that inserted horizontally into the battery compartment, but that would have been tricky given the door would have been under your shooting hand (unsightly at best, uncomfortable at worst) and it would have to have been robust enough that you couldn't inadvertently jettison it. Edited January 19, 2022 by Tailwagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 19, 2022 Share #328 Posted January 19, 2022 28 minutes ago, Tailwagger said: Its a little annoying to have to pull the battery, which I suspect will bug me a lot more after I get a grip, unless I just give in and buy the Leica version, as assuming there's no battery door, any grip will also have to be removed to get to the card. That said, I think if you pull the battery, look inside and note how much of the body is devoted to it, then consider all the mechanism and optics required for the RF. Now add in the shutter mechanism which is absent in the Q (as its a leaf). From there you have to find an alternate location that you insert something that's fairly deep and wide. Not a lot of free space lying around. So my guess, is that from a packaging standpoint, it was the most logical spot to put the card. It might have been possible to put a door on the side of the camera that inserted horizontally into the battery compartment, but that would have been tricky given the door would have been under your shooting hand (unsightly at best, uncomfortable at worst) and it would have to have been robust enough that you couldn't inadvertently jettison it. I do not feel that it is a worse solution than we had before. In addition, you can transfer images and charge battery via the easily accessible USB-C port. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 19, 2022 Share #329 Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, SrMi said: I do not feel that it is a worse solution than we had before. In addition, you can transfer images and charge battery via the easily accessible USB-C port. It’s funny that now it’s easier than ever to remove the battery and SD card VS previous Ms, but with its implementation, do you even have to remove the SD card or the battery ever again anymore now that the M11 has the USB-C connection and internal storage? Use case 1: People who shoot with medium / small DNGs will never need an SD card even, just use 64GB internal storage and transfer / charge battery using the USB-C port Use case 2: People who shoot with high DNGs or shoot a lot of events will most likely use the internal storage & an SD (let’s say 64~128GB SD). Transfer files from both the internal storage and SD using the USB-C Port, format them on camera when done, and you’re ready for another shot. The only instance when you’d have to access the SD is to change them midway an event or a shooting day, and given the internal storage, and the use case for most leica M users, this is potentially a very small percentage of use cases, if any. Edited January 19, 2022 by shirubadanieru 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 19, 2022 Share #330 Posted January 19, 2022 8 hours ago, SrMi said: I do not feel that it is a worse solution than we had before. In addition, you can transfer images and charge battery via the easily accessible USB-C port. Given I work on a laptop, there is almost zero chance I'll be using the USB-C port for xfering in anything other than an emergency. I threw the cable back into the box and the box into the closet. Too easy to get distracted while off loading, snag a wire, what have you and next thing you know, Homer Simpson moment and the camera is on the floor. Regardless of how you feel about the battery position, card slot, loss of base plate, paint finish, shutter sound, etc these things are total nits and have very little to zero impact on one's image making. There are always dozens of legit reasons to pass on any new version of a camera. Card slot location really shouldn't be high up that list, one way or the other. If it is, I'd suggest doing a selfie, taking a very long and close look at it and asking just how perfect that bloke is at EVERY aspect of life, great and small. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 19, 2022 Share #331 Posted January 19, 2022 Complaining about the location of the SD card on the M11 has to be the most first world problem I've ever heard, second only to having to remove the baseplate for all of 10 seconds on previous M's. "But my cat might wake up and do something interesting in those ten seconds and I'll miss the shot!" 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neekon Posted January 19, 2022 Share #332 Posted January 19, 2022 15 hours ago, Tailwagger said: Its a little annoying to have to pull the battery, which I suspect will bug me a lot more after I get a grip, unless I just give in and buy the Leica version, as assuming there's no battery door, any grip will also have to be removed to get to the card. That said, I think if you pull the battery, look inside and note how much of the body is devoted to it, then consider all the mechanism and optics required for the RF. Now add in the shutter mechanism which is absent in the Q (as its a leaf). From there you have to find an alternate location that you insert something that's fairly deep and wide. Not a lot of free space lying around. So my guess, is that from a packaging standpoint, it was the most logical spot to put the card. It might have been possible to put a door on the side of the camera that inserted horizontally into the battery compartment, but that would have been tricky given the door would have been under your shooting hand (unsightly at best, uncomfortable at worst) and it would have to have been robust enough that you couldn't inadvertently jettison it. 15 hours ago, SrMi said: I do not feel that it is a worse solution than we had before. In addition, you can transfer images and charge battery via the easily accessible USB-C port. 10 hours ago, shirubadanieru said: It’s funny that now it’s easier than ever to remove the battery and SD card VS previous Ms, but with its implementation, do you even have to remove the SD card or the battery ever again anymore now that the M11 has the USB-C connection and internal storage? Use case 1: People who shoot with medium / small DNGs will never need an SD card even, just use 64GB internal storage and transfer / charge battery using the USB-C port Use case 2: People who shoot with high DNGs or shoot a lot of events will most likely use the internal storage & an SD (let’s say 64~128GB SD). Transfer files from both the internal storage and SD using the USB-C Port, format them on camera when done, and you’re ready for another shot. The only instance when you’d have to access the SD is to change them midway an event or a shooting day, and given the internal storage, and the use case for most leica M users, this is potentially a very small percentage of use cases, if any. While i agree that the space was likely the limiting factor. and this was the only place, it does feel like it will grow tiresome overtime. I never plan to use the USB-C port for the transferring photos, maybe charging it, but never transferring photos. I prefer the SD cards. I am using the internal storage as a backup and thats it. 4 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said: Complaining about the location of the SD card on the M11 has to be the most first world problem I've ever heard, second only to having to remove the baseplate for all of 10 seconds on previous M's. "But my cat might wake up and do something interesting in those ten seconds and I'll miss the shot!" In reality, yes this is a "first world problem". Then again complaining about any mirrorless digital camera is a first world problem. I never liked removing the baseplate either, but got used to it, as i will get used to removing the battery. I think mockery is a lil uncalled for, not all photographers, Leica or otherwise, exclusively take photos of their cats or pets. The concern has real consequences for working pros who might use their M as a backup or secondary camera on a shoot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 19, 2022 Share #333 Posted January 19, 2022 So, how do people here transfer their files? WiFi - hopeless. If I’m patient, I can get a file off my M10-D, perhaps my SL, but no chance with my TL2; none whatsoever. SD card slot/dongle on USB-C - probably the quickest, and most reliable. Bear in mind, though, that whether you use a built in SD card slot or USB-C cable and dongle, your computer is running firmware USB connection to your camera - how, exactly is this different to using an SD card reader? I have found this just as quick (Monochrom, SL and TL2). One thing, however - a big file will take longer. I am not at all convinced that there is anything to gain from a 60MP, 135 format file. I would be a fan if Leica had said 24MP is enough and 40MP the max - let’s use the technological advances to provide the best sensors on this platform, and within that range. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianforber Posted January 19, 2022 Share #334 Posted January 19, 2022 On 1/18/2022 at 5:27 PM, neekon said: While i do think that i was a bit harsh on the M11 shutter. I dont think i will ever like the shutter clunk on startup, but its something i have learned to live with and just plan accordingly(ie, i leave the camera on with a 10min shutdown). I just feel that there were better solutions. The Q2 for example. The battery is in one area, and the SD card is in another. It just feels like they replaced the inconvenience of removing the bottom plate to access the SD card with having to remove the battery to get to the SD card. I popped into the Leica store in London earlier today to have a play with the M11. For most of the time I was the only person in a quiet place. It’s probably my hearing but, try as I might, I could barely hear anything when switching the camera on. I don’t have experience of any other M to compare it with but I’d say that the clunk of the OIS mechanism when switching my Q2 on is noticeable whereas the M11 switch-on noise was not. Fortunately for my bank account, they didn’t have any left in stock… Ian 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted January 20, 2022 Share #335 Posted January 20, 2022 17 pages of drivel..... I get that an M is as much an emotional choice as a practical one. Probaly more emotional. M is all about the user experience. Sure. But this is pushing it. EVERY M has a slightly different experience to the one before it. This is no different. But as usual we've got one camp complaining Leica went too far and another complaining they didn't go far enough. I have a few mirrorless cameras, so I thought I'd pull a few out and see how fast the start up is on them compared to the M11. Nothing fancy. Just turn them on with the same exact card, formatted in each camera. No timers. Pulled out a Z7, S1R, SL2, A7R3 and my Q2. Also have my M10R, M10 and a M-P. The Z7, S1R, SL2 and A7R3 leave the shutter open on shut down. All of them take longer to start up than the M's which were all about the same. All of them. Only the Q2 was about as quick. The M's are all consistantly around 1.3-5 seconds to start with the same fast card. The M11 starts at the same speed as the M10R within an unmeasurable deviation. It's such a daft argument. I'm sure some muppet will point out that a Z9 or R3 is quicker to startup. Well, duh!! The card you choose will have more effect on the start up difference between the M's than the camera will. The battery door is neither here nor there. Opening a second door or removing the battery takes about the same time and at least you can't remove the card when the camera is powered up, which is a good thing. I liked the base plate. I will miss it. I found that being able to change it out for a RRS plate when required was great. Now that's more of a cludge. But having access to USBC charging is worth it. I have cable with a 90 degree plug which are way better than what Leica provide. You don't even need a card!! There is no perceivable difference in shutter lag or volume over the M10R. The sound is the same, just a bit longer. Barely. It's quieter than a regular M10 but fractionally longer. Any comparison to the M9 is a blattant falsehood. Yes. I hear the click when I start it up. But likely I'll use the auto sleep function when out because now I have an all day battery. So even if I objected (I don't. It's a nothing), I'll hear it once a session. And it'll help kepp crap off the sansor when I change lenses. The M11 is the first M with a totally silent shutter option. For a lot of shooters this is huge. Think wedding photographers. Set photographers etc.... That said, the only reason to upgrade from an M10R is really if you want to use live view more or the totally silent electronic shutter is of use (ie: mostly still subjects). Other than upgrading from an M10R is really a unneccesary thing. Choosing between the two I think the M11 is an obviously better choice. I will miss the baseplate. I was attached to it but in reality this is no less M than any other before it. There will be important things to discuss. Like which camera bag is best or what colour strap is required. Go to a shop. Try an M11. If you like it, buy it. If not....... Gordon 5 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 20, 2022 Share #336 Posted January 20, 2022 vor 1 Minute schrieb Artin: …The M11 is as good as it it gets I suspect, the M12 will be even better, the best M Leica will have ever made. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 20, 2022 Share #337 Posted January 20, 2022 23 minutes ago, Artin said: sad card location is perfect This about covers the range of forum sentiments to date… from sad to perfect. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 20, 2022 Share #338 Posted January 20, 2022 The M12 will be even more perfect if it comes with a separate SD card door. But right now it’s as perfect as it gets. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 20, 2022 Share #339 Posted January 20, 2022 One bit of advice... don't play around with the 'lower res' modes. I was doing some testing last night checking all three modes, and forgot to set things back to L-DNG before shooting, so I everything today wound up in S-DNG. Just not something I'm used to checking. That said, 18Mpx aint really all that bad. And on the plus side 120 shots with 80% battery remaining on essentially a brand new battery. The big problem now is going to be remembering to charge it every now and again, never a problem with the 10-R whose battery hit the charger every time I pulled the card to upload. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted January 20, 2022 Share #340 Posted January 20, 2022 I really think many would love a state-of-the-art M Leica. However, many just cannot afford such luxury when our present M's are doing a good job. If i was to buy the camera, extra battery, and Viso...well it'd be $15,000 Australian. Frankly too much of a stretch. Particularly for some of us self-funded-retirees. So I'm not sure it's about 17 pages of drivel or looking for faults. Perhaps a hope and a prayer will answer many who love the M digitals. All best to those who can. I'll expect exemplary pictures .. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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