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Leica M11 Sensor review


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4 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Slightly interesting for some of us and "who cares" for others.

I just noticed today, Wikipedia, changed "It uses a 60-megapixel Sony image sensor,"  to  "It uses a 60.3-megapixel image sensor," deleting the reference to Sony.  😉

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M11

 Someone posted on the Leica M11: Revision history:

19:21, 21 February 2022‎ 173.68.74.6 talk‎  5,385 bytes −3‎  " It’s 60.3mp sensor and it’s not from Sony, I email Leica and they confirmed that."

Anyone can type that. Doesn’t mean it’s true. This doesn’t really mean anything. I can just go back and change it. For all we know it was you! 😅

not sure why you guys want to kill the fact that the Leica M11 has a Sony sensor in it. The A7RIV sensor to be exact. 

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the proof is in the pudding. Whatever “anonymous user” wants to push on Wikipedia. The fact remains the Sony and Leica 60.3MP sensors are basically IDENTICAL. 
 

Here’s all you need to confirm it. It’s a very slight variant of the Sony A7RIV sensor if anything.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica M10-P,Leica M10-R,Leica M11,Sony ILCE-7RM4

Its a sony sensor BUT, there’s always a but, BUT, the cover glass is a Leica glass. 🤣 

Whatever man. Just take the pictures. Sony takes great photos too. 

Edited by KeyofG
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1 hour ago, KeyofG said:

It is. I wish you could take an M11 out and an A7RIV and shoot them both with the same lens. Apart from small differences the results are basically identical. Any difference people “see” is total bias. 

I doubt that. The underlying sensor plays only one part in the final result. The sensor toppings, the firmware, both have significant impact on the result, and they are both different on M11.

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2 hours ago, KeyofG said:

Anyone can type that. Doesn’t mean it’s true. This doesn’t really mean anything. I can just go back and change it. For all we know it was you! 😅

not sure why you guys want to kill the fact that the Leica M11 has a Sony sensor in it. The A7RIV sensor to be exact. 

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the proof is in the pudding. Whatever “anonymous user” wants to push on Wikipedia. The fact remains the Sony and Leica 60.3MP sensors are basically IDENTICAL. 
 

Here’s all you need to confirm it. It’s a very slight variant of the Sony A7RIV sensor if anything.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica M10-P,Leica M10-R,Leica M11,Sony ILCE-7RM4

Its a sony sensor BUT, there’s always a but, BUT, the cover glass is a Leica glass. 🤣 

Whatever man. Just take the pictures. Sony takes great photos too. 

Personally, I think it is the A7rIV sensor as I posted on this forum back in January. I wasn't aware "you guys want to kill the fact that the Leica M11 has a Sony sensor in it." Happy to see Leica making very good use of a Sony sensor it in the M11 too. But like you posted "Whatever man. Just take the pictures. Sony takes great photos too. " LOL

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

they are both different on M11.

Here’s a folder full or raw files. Both A7RIV and M11 using the same lens 50 Lux. 

reset the RAW for the Leica because it has been edited. Well reset both when you open them just in case and you can look at both files. 

other than the Leica being slightly cooler in some shots, they’re basically identical. Anything else people say is bias. If I shot the A7RIV and declared it a Leica M11 nobody could tell. 
 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4o0sct6fqohew5z/AAAp5vPkyU1s2-6lWCB6GYAka/RAWs?dl=0&subfolder_nav_tracking=1

Edited by KeyofG
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2 hours ago, KeyofG said:

Here’s a folder full or raw files. Both A7RIV and M11 using the same lens 50 Lux. 

reset the RAW for the Leica because it has been edited. Well reset both when you open them just in case and you can look at both files. 

other than the Leica being slightly cooler in some shots, they’re basically identical. Anything else people say is bias. If I shot the A7RIV and declared it a Leica M11 nobody could tell. 
 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4o0sct6fqohew5z/AAAp5vPkyU1s2-6lWCB6GYAka/RAWs?dl=0&subfolder_nav_tracking=1

I think they are the same sensor, but there are still conditions in which you may notice a difference such as corner performance at infinity, particularly for wide angle lenses.

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Just a bit of tongue in cheek idea... Since the M11 sensor can show the sensor bifurcation, perhaps someone could confirm if the Sony sensor is also made this way, it's a way to confirm this idea even more?

Leica claims with the M10-R sensors,  "Due to the sensor size, the photolithographic structuring of the surface takes place in two separate exposure steps, one each for the left and right half of the sensor. Therefore, minimal deviations in the behaviour of the treated areas are inevitable and a property of a large image sensor."

And since the I've seen this bifurcation with two M11 cameras, I presume the manufacturing should be similar???

 

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3 hours ago, jdlaing said:

What gives everyone the idea it’s a Sony sensor?

It's the same base sensor as the A7R4 with custom cover glass and microlens design as well as a base ISO of 64 instead of 100 (also same base sensor as GFX 100/100S but smaller). Same but different.

Not a fact unless confirmed by Leica, but it's a very solid theory.

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6 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

Just a bit of tongue in cheek idea... Since the M11 sensor can show the sensor bifurcation, perhaps someone could confirm if the Sony sensor is also made this way, it's a way to confirm this idea even more?

Leica claims with the M10-R sensors,  "Due to the sensor size, the photolithographic structuring of the surface takes place in two separate exposure steps, one each for the left and right half of the sensor. Therefore, minimal deviations in the behaviour of the treated areas are inevitable and a property of a large image sensor."

And since the I've seen this bifurcation with two M11 cameras, I presume the manufacturing should be similar???

I can't provoke the bifurcation line artifact to show on my M11 images, and I could with one of my two M10Ms. If anyone gets an M11 with this issue, just return it to the dealer for an exchange during the first 30 days or whatever the timeframe is from the dealer.

Full-size M11 JPEGs exported from DNG originals below. First is normally processed, second is +100 dehaze, clarity and contrast, which always provokes a bifurcation line artifact to show if it exists.

 

Normal processing:

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+100 to dehaze, clarity, and contrast:

Edited by hdmesa
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2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

It's the same base sensor as the A7R4 with custom cover glass and microlens design as well as a base ISO of 64 instead of 100 (also same base sensor as GFX 100/100S but smaller). Same but different.

Not a fact unless confirmed by Leica, but it's a very solid theory.

Well.

Its not.

Nice theory though.

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4 hours ago, hdmesa said:

You just asked how people knew it’s a Sony sensor, but now you say you know it’s not but don’t say how. Insider info?

Take my word for it. It’s not. And I have no inside information from Leica. That does not mean I don’t have it elsewhere. 

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2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Why should I? I'm asking how you know just like you asked everyone else.

You don’t have to take my word for it. How I know is none of your business. You and some others here declared it’s a Sony sensor and it is not.

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