zone5 Posted January 14, 2022 Share #1 Posted January 14, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) There are so many M11 Reviews available now. I have been busy reading all these reviews. However, there is no review that reviews sensor deeper than just spec and sating it is very good at low light. When we had M10 first time there are so many detail reviews about sensor technology including how the sensor design optimized for M lens by thin thickness of glass, micro-prism design .... Color rendering, comparing with M240 and M9 CCD sensor etc. Now M11 reviews are mainly about spec, minor design change, buttons ..... I know these are important but some very important information is missing. It is like car reviews about exterior interior design and headlight shape , information system but without detail about engine and transmission technology and driving performance and ride.... I am using Leica M10P , M10 mono and SL with Leica glasses and I am interested in this new M11 and want to learn about this camera especially about sensor technology besides just specs, I am wondering wether this is Sony sensor variant or not (this is matter to me since I used multiple sony system before and I do not like sony sensor rendering personally), I want to know how different this M11 sensor to compare with M10 and M10 R.... Please let me know if there is any review that will explain all of these questions about M11 sensor. Please forgive me if I say something wrong but my biggest fear for Leica's future products as Leica Enthusiast is adapting Sony sensor for all of future cameras. I do not have any way to prove this but Sony sensor have their own look and even though they produce detail and sharp images I do not like that look. Again, I do not want to offend anybody with this statement but that is jus my personal view. H Jung Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14, 2022 Posted January 14, 2022 Hi zone5, Take a look here Leica M11 Sensor review. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tailwagger Posted January 14, 2022 Share #2 Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, zone5 said: my biggest fear for Leica's future products as Leica Enthusiast is adapting Sony sensor for all of future cameras. Not being much of fan of Sony rendering, I understand you concern, but the best color SooC I've experienced so far comes off of the Sony sensor embedded in the X1Dii. As more reviews appear with DNG downloads, its probably best if you pull some samples and decide for yourself. DPReview has a number of them up you can download. Edited January 14, 2022 by Tailwagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanusj Posted January 14, 2022 Share #3 Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, zone5 said: There are so many M11 Reviews available now. I have been busy reading all these reviews. However, there is no review that reviews sensor deeper than just spec and sating it is very good at low light. When we had M10 first time there are so many detail reviews about sensor technology including how the sensor design optimized for M lens by thin thickness of glass, micro-prism design .... Color rendering, comparing with M240 and M9 CCD sensor etc. Now M11 reviews are mainly about spec, minor design change, buttons ..... I know these are important but some very important information is missing. It is like car reviews about exterior interior design and headlight shape , information system but without detail about engine and transmission technology and driving performance and ride.... I am using Leica M10P , M10 mono and SL with Leica glasses and I am interested in this new M11 and want to learn about this camera especially about sensor technology besides just specs, I am wondering wether this is Sony sensor variant or not (this is matter to me since I used multiple sony system before and I do not like sony sensor rendering personally), I want to know how different this M11 sensor to compare with M10 and M10 R.... Please let me know if there is any review that will explain all of these questions about M11 sensor. Please forgive me if I say something wrong but my biggest fear for Leica's future products as Leica Enthusiast is adapting Sony sensor for all of future cameras. I do not have any way to prove this but Sony sensor have their own look and even though they produce detail and sharp images I do not like that look. Again, I do not want to offend anybody with this statement but that is jus my personal view. H Jung I try M11 vs M10P @ISO 12.5K, as we all know that with M10P from ISO 10K up, there are a little color shift, especially in the shadow (skin tone shift towards green). And M11 at ISO12.5K will feel like ISO 6400 at M10P. maybe there are a 1 or 1,5stops improvement in High ISO (color and noise) vs M10P. For the color rendering, using beta firmware... M11 is a little bit flat than M10P. Hopefully Leica will improve it with the release firmware, but so far i dont like what i see... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanusj Posted January 14, 2022 Share #4 Posted January 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Artin said: Trust me it is nothing like a Sony A7R 4 sensor. It has the Leica pop the colour rendition is unlike anything we have seen before, what I see is a SL2 IQ on steroids. hopefully... with beta firmware, the orange and red is more subtle than what i've used/like to see.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 14, 2022 Share #5 Posted January 14, 2022 I assume that reviewers where working with beta firmware until the launch. You cannot make reliable color, etc., judgment until the final software is out. Sean Reid is a preparing a series of articles that will likely answer your questions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 14, 2022 Share #6 Posted January 14, 2022 It is said to be a Sony sensor. But the cover glass (filtering infrared and ultraviolett) is developed from Leica. Same with the electronics. This makes the colors. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zone5 Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share #7 Posted January 14, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you so much for answer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeseed Posted January 26, 2022 Share #8 Posted January 26, 2022 a) It is a Sony sensor. b) It is from the same family as the SL2-S sensor hence why it looks similar as Leica is likely sharing electronics/code. c) A sensor converts light into a voltage. It doesn't tell you what colour that voltage represents. d) Sigma FP-L, Leica M11 and the Sony A7R4 use this sensor but have very different colour profiles. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 26, 2022 Share #9 Posted January 26, 2022 e) I don't care, it is a good sensor. moving on 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdahab Posted January 26, 2022 Share #10 Posted January 26, 2022 One thing that I haven't seen explained is how Leica is able to have wider base ISO vs. the Sony (64-50000 vs 100-32000) with the same sensor, even if the glass/electronics/color rendering is a little different. Is Sony just cropping off achievable ISOs because they don't fit within the multiples of 2? Or has Leica actually gotten a slightly better version of the sensor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted January 26, 2022 Share #11 Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) Am 14.1.2022 um 05:12 schrieb Artin: Trust me it is nothing like a Sony A7R 4 sensor. It has the Leica pop the colour rendition is unlike anything we have seen before, what I see is a SL2 IQ on steroids. And I see the 3D thing that normally only Leica has. NEW now in the Leica M11. Edited January 26, 2022 by M10 for me Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiMustermann Posted January 26, 2022 Share #12 Posted January 26, 2022 Oh my god - it‘s a Sony! 😂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted January 26, 2022 Share #13 Posted January 26, 2022 vor 1 Minute schrieb HansiMustermann: Oh my god - it‘s a Sony! 😂 We are all shocked. Leica look and 3D was always fake. Now we know what we always feared Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted January 26, 2022 Share #14 Posted January 26, 2022 But we all know that the sensor is not just that Sony stuff but a lot of engineering design that was made by Leica. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 26, 2022 Share #15 Posted January 26, 2022 12 minutes ago, wdahab said: One thing that I haven't seen explained is how Leica is able to have wider base ISO vs. the Sony (64-50000 vs 100-32000) with the same sensor, even if the glass/electronics/color rendering is a little different. Is Sony just cropping off achievable ISOs because they don't fit within the multiples of 2? Or has Leica actually gotten a slightly better version of the sensor? Or better firmware... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 26, 2022 Share #16 Posted January 26, 2022 28 minutes ago, jaapv said: Or better firmware... And presumably completely different ancillary hardware. Regardless, for two decades Apple used essentially the same Intel processor as every other PC manufacturer. Did anyone ever confuse Windows for MacOS? 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcinus Posted January 26, 2022 Share #17 Posted January 26, 2022 1 hour ago, wdahab said: One thing that I haven't seen explained is how Leica is able to have wider base ISO vs. the Sony (64-50000 vs 100-32000) with the same sensor, even if the glass/electronics/color rendering is a little different. Is Sony just cropping off achievable ISOs because they don't fit within the multiples of 2? Or has Leica actually gotten a slightly better version of the sensor? There’s more to sensitivity and base ISO than just the naked sensor. the microlens array might be different / built to different spec Bayer filter might be different (have different transmissivity) the filter stack in front of the sensor might be (we know it is) different dual amp gains might be set up and spaced differently (they are, it’s visible on the photons to photos charts) sensor might have the same resolution, but might be an altogether different SKU who knows what else 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted January 26, 2022 Share #18 Posted January 26, 2022 FWIW From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: The Leica M11 is a full-frame digital rangefinder camera from Leica Camera AG.[1][2][3][4][5] It was introduced on 13 January 2022.[6] It uses a 60-megapixel Sony image sensor, and is compatible with almost all Leica M mount lenses.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted January 26, 2022 Share #19 Posted January 26, 2022 1 minute ago, orcinus said: There’s more to sensitivity and base ISO than just the naked sensor. the microlens array might be different / built to different spec Bayer filter might be different (have different transmissivity) the filter stack in front of the sensor might be (we know it is) different dual amp gains might be set up and spaced differently (they are, it’s visible on the photons to photos charts) sensor might have the same resolution, but might be an altogether different SKU who knows what else Very good points. When I listened to a Leica talk about the M11, they mentioned that the filters on top of the sensor were new and thinner. Sorry to be so vague, I did not hear that part well, but I do remember they said they had a new thinner dual layer filter (UC/IR) and a new color filter array in order to have better color reproduction. They said that either they have patented the technology or they were going to do so. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcinus Posted January 26, 2022 Share #20 Posted January 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Daedalus2000 said: a new color filter array in order to have better color reproduction. They said that either they have patented the technology or they were going to do so. I think i’ve seen mention of that in a couple of places too. Unfortunately, no detail was provided - i’m wondering if that means just different arrangement of color filters (not very exciting, about all of them were tried at one point or another, industry ended up with Bayer because it’s optimal), or perhaps something more exotic like dramatically changing the actual peak wavelengths of the filters, which would be super interesting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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