Leica M11 image quality (?)

[Kwesi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I think these are very early days and as such early adopters are in some small sense beta testers giving their gut reactions to images that they are producing with software that may or may not be optimized for the M11. In other words there is quite a range here and as such I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet.

[Knipsknecht]

I second @Kwesis opinion. Maybe we know more in a few weeks. Personally I am astonished to see some breathtaking pictures concerning color rendition and highlight recovery as well as some photos with horrible rendering and completely oversaturated colors. I hope it’s just a question of some not yet optimized software.

And as others have already pointed out, the colors of the better pics remind me of my M9.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[zone5]

17 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

I think these are very early days and as such early adopters are in some small sense beta testers giving their gut reactions to images that they are producing with software that may or may not be optimized for the M11. In other words there is quite a range here and as such I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet.

That is very true. This is why I tried compare the images from reputable reviewer's site.

There are images from first review for M10 Sl, Sl2 etc. Those images had been processed at beginning of that camera time. So it is similar situation as M11 now. 

[John Smith]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

Chamber Lloyds is a well-known photography blogger with a subscription site. I do not subscribe to it. He is well known for complaining about everything and anything, but he is also competent and critical. However, he has not found anything to complain about M11's image quality. On the contrary, he called it the best M camera ever. Very rare praise from him.

Maybe Lloyd Chamber is a Sony/Nikon/Fuji fan. Just sayin'.

[M Journey]

I think someone else on this forum said it best (quoting someone else), don't judge a camera by the worst pictures, but by the best.  @Kwesialso makes a good point that many posters are not using proper post, or even taking the time to find and compose great shots.  Many people (myself included) are just taking photos around the house and on walks in the neighborhood.

I would suggest looking at some reviews like Jono and Dave Farkas and comparing their photos from the m11 review against their reviews of earlier cameras.  For both, you can actually compare the shots taken with the m11 and 35 apo against the shots shared in his 35 apo review (I assume they were all take with a 10/10r).  Reviewers take care to compose and post process as needed.  See if the photos from the m11 are any better or give the colors/range that you would deem better or an upgrade.

Personally I think the photos in both of these reviews form Jono are great and I can only aspire to take photos half as good.  Jono himself are saying that they are better, and I would trust his opnion on this matter.

I think that a year from now, when the m11 photos thread has hundreds of pages long and users have gotten more time to adjust their post processing to the new files, you will start to see better pictures. 

 

[tom0511]

Jono also writes about M11 : "whilst the excellent colour feels more 'realistic' (although perhaps not so charming)." I think I agree.

Three unscientific findings from my side - the M10r color is not the most neutral, but it has a certain pop and "organic" look which really has grown on me and now I like it a lot, even if they a re maybe not always as realistic as the M11 color. Second - even though the color from 11 (I can only talk about a beta camera) are quite good already in LR, I still believe there is some room for optimization regarding WB. and profiles. From my part image quality alone would not be a reason to upgrade (except I needed the resolution. There are quite some other differences which make the M11 appealing to me (for example exposure metering, battery,...). Another thing would be to look how the 2 cameras compare in regards of CA/color fringing.

I really would like to own both

[david strachan]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, Artin said:

wow really ?  I don't think there is any question 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Hi Artin

The picture of your pooch...Is he (she) watching TV to have that magenta-red-purple on its face and mouth and ear?

 

Cheers...

[tom0511]

Artin,

first impression is m10r image a little slightly brownish skin color, m11 a little slightly pinkish.

whats your opinion?

[Nick Bedford]

What is "pop" anyway? That word doesn't really give me any real sense of what's being desired in the image characteristics. Maybe someone can chime in on this. Is it smoothness of the bokeh, which is a lens characteristic? Is it colour accuracy, neutrality or vibrance? Image contrast or spectral response? Edge definition, which is related to the sensor glass/pattern design and also the lens quality?

Regardless of pop, one thing about image characteristics is that for my work, I never use the built-in Leica or Adobe profiles anyway. I have my own custom colour and tonal style that I apply in Lightroom. I've never quite enjoyed the "thin" feeling I get from digital camera colour profiles. I always make mine a little more filmic in nature (compressed highlights, shifts in hues, altered colour saturation and tone curves etc). Not sure if anyone else vibes with this takeaway? Early on in my photographer journey, I discovered something other than "Camera Standard" and the like and ever since, my work has become more my own (as opposed to Canon's or Nikon's). 

These are Leica M 240 images but the colour isn't based on Leica's profile. This is my subjective style though anyway. There's nothing wrong with standard Leica colour. It's just not my cup of tea, nor are most other digital camera colour profiles. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[aristotle]

For those who subscribe, there's a new comparison (M10R and M11 color and high-iso noise) article today on Reid Reviews (worth the price of admission in my view).  The net-net of it (seems to me) is that the M11 output is slightly more saturated but overall very similar from a color perspective to the M10R.  M11 has better color noise performance at ISO 12,500 and higher when compared at similar (medium DNG on the M11, native on the M10R) resolutions.  Color output seems close enough (in his controlled environment at least) that either could easily be tweaked to look like the other....but the M11 has a slight advantage from a noise perspective...but mainly at really high ISO settings.  At moderate and below, they are similar, or the M10R even has advantages in some circumstances.  Not having the M11 of course, I can't say that I'd experience the same thing in day-to-day shooting....but it's an interesting read.

[algrove]

Reid's review on M11 color versus M10R is interesting and food for thought.

[snooper]

Artin,

Would it be possible to have a 100% crop around this area of your photo, or at least where the focus was supposed to be set ?

Thanks a lot !

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[frame-it]

24 minutes ago, snooper said:

 

am waiting for some m11 shots from your plane, if possible with U2 or coldplay

 

[snooper]

52 minutes ago, frame-it said:

am waiting for some m11 shots from your plane, if possible with U2 or coldplay

 

Coldplay announced they would not tour on airplanes anymore, and U2 might announce something for next year - maybe. Anyway, as per contract we cannot take pictures or use these bands for our promotion, so no pictures other than what they post themselves, unfortunately. So I dont need to rush on the M11 😁😉😎

[stefanusj]

 

31 minutes ago, snooper said:

Coldplay announced they would not tour on airplanes anymore, and U2 might announce something for next year - maybe. Anyway, as per contract we cannot take pictures or use these bands for our promotion, so no pictures other than what they post themselves, unfortunately. So I dont need to rush on the M11 😁😉😎

coldplay would not tour in the current weather (cold)... wait around summer, i guess...

[tom0511]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Nick Bedford:

What is "pop" anyway? That word doesn't really give me any real sense of what's being desired in the image characteristics. Maybe someone can chime in on this. Is it smoothness of the bokeh, which is a lens characteristic? Is it colour accuracy, neutrality or vibrance? Image contrast or spectral response? Edge definition, which is related to the sensor glass/pattern design and also the lens quality?

Regardless of pop, one thing about image characteristics is that for my work, I never use the built-in Leica or Adobe profiles anyway. I have my own custom colour and tonal style that I apply in Lightroom. I've never quite enjoyed the "thin" feeling I get from digital camera colour profiles. I always make mine a little more filmic in nature (compressed highlights, shifts in hues, altered colour saturation and tone curves etc). Not sure if anyone else vibes with this takeaway? Early on in my photographer journey, I discovered something other than "Camera Standard" and the like and ever since, my work has become more my own (as opposed to Canon's or Nikon's). 

These are Leica M 240 images but the colour isn't based on Leica's profile. This is my subjective style though anyway. There's nothing wrong with standard Leica colour. It's just not my cup of tea, nor are most other digital camera colour profiles. 

 

 

I like your images and the color! Personally I tried custom profiles once upon a time, but I am not good at it and my profiles worked fine for some images, and then npt goof for others, and I found it hard to get consistency. So for me its very welcome if a camera in combination with a raw processor and its profiles produces a look close to what I like.

In regards of "pop". For me it means that colors are saturated but should not look articial, image should have nice contrast and microcontrast, but also good tonality, there should be a "3d-look", good details.

[otto.f]

I read the idea of ‘pop’ first and foremost at Steve Huff’s site. This was in the context of properties of a lens, meaning how the focused subject stands out clearly from the unfocused area, so it has to do with edge definition and microcontrast indeed. When you follow the evolution from M8 to M11, you can see that the pop becomes less as the dynamic range increases. So in that sense pop can be a trait of the sensor too. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by otto.f

[fabior]

I see that there is a lot of talk about 3D and pop images related to the features of M11 rather than M10R, M10, M240, M9 etc.
I would like to share my modest experience gained thanks to a beautiful leica akademie course in which I attended. During this course a day was dedicated with the support of an expert in post production with whom I was able to verify how with a few settings with lightroom it was possible to obtain unimaginable results.I understood that post production is essentialI. I know I'm not a professional, but I come from an experience with M9, M240, M10D, M10R, SL and SL2  ! 
In conclusion, I suggest you take a look at his site, even if is in Italian !  https://www.gianlucacatzeddu.com  Thanks again to Leica Akademie Italia !

 

[pgh]

I'm interested in direct experiences comparing between the 10r and the 11 - specifically with regards to the malleability of the files.

I am happy enough with my m10 in all respects other than the sensor lacks the range that other sensors have, and that I print larger on occasion. 24 > 40 is good, 60 better but not necessary for me. I would say the now old A7r2 would be file quality/malleability I would be happy with.

Color is something I generally arrive at on my own anyways for each camera I tend to work towards my own presets to begin, but I like the m10's enough as a starting point. Aside from noise at high ISO and color difference (better is subjective), is the DR of the m11 sensor noticeably, materially above the M10R? Are highlight and shadow recovery noticeably better from one to the other? Am I correct in thinking the M10R is in another league of highlight recovery from the M10? 

I could swing an m11 if necessary but what I really want is to have a better sensor in an M tomorrow, and to hold on to more of my money. It's been awhile since I looked at upgrading my m10 (got it at the beginning), and the M10r is already dropping in price and used ones are appealing too. The meter, shutter, and all other features of the M11 seem nice but I don't care. 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by pgh

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Torontoamateur]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:52 AM, Fedro said:

you lost me a little bit there - would definitely buy a 6x7 like the mamiya or plaubel

Then you should consider the Hasselblad 907X, But that is such a NON -Leica experience  Ugh !!!