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Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?


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Leica M11 Survey  

662 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

    • Yes, already as good as pre-ordered
      152
    • Probably yes, got to check my savings
      73
    • I'm still waiting for reviews and first hand experiences
      92
    • Thanks, I'll stick with my M10....
      228
    • Other opinion (please comment below)
      116

This poll is closed to new votes


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There is a factor that tends to get ignored on a forum of current Leica users.

It is not just about "upgrading" by people who already own an M10/9/240.

How important is it for Leica to appeal to non-Leica users? Against the competition? How does Leica grow their market, not simply maintain it?

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49 minutes ago, adan said:

There is a factor that tends to get ignored on a forum of current Leica users.

It is not just about "upgrading" by people who already own an M10/9/240.

How important is it for Leica to appeal to non-Leica users? Against the competition? How does Leica grow their market, not simply maintain it?

Agreed. The M9 may have been the most successful case for growing the digital M market outside the Leica user base, at least based on my casual readings. But the price of entry (for new M releases) has soared since then (as well as the cost of new Leica branded M lenses).  It seems Leica has relied more on other product line expansion, i.e., the SL and Q lines, to broaden its market share , rather than depending as much on the M line, at least for the more typical consumer price point.  But of course I could be wrong; only Leica knows.

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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1 hour ago, adan said:

Quite right. I  budget for about $1000 per camera per year of service, and an assumed service life of up to 10 years.

My M9s just about met that standard ($6995 each at time of purchase: served for 7+ years, late 2009 to early 2017) - even despite the corrosion issue.

The M10s certainly could (surprisingly, just $6600 at time of purchase, since I adopted early).

I'm pretty sure each M11 I might get could serve 9 years - still waiting to see what it can get away with, ISO-wise, and at the various resolutions/file-sizes (I count having to buy additional storage as part of the "cost of ownership." ;) ).

My problem is that I cannot shoot everything on Leica Ms so I have to have another system. This significantly increases my costs. Factor in a second body and the M11 is looking like too much of an expensive luxury to be a 'pro' camera unfortunately. My M9s are still going strong anyway, and as I'm a low ISO shooter most of the time, and as their files print well enough for 99.99% of my needs, I have been loath to upgrade them. I like the CCD characteristics too. If I do buy another M it will probably be to a lightly used M10 which makes a great deal more sense in business terms.

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2 hours ago, adan said:

There is a factor that tends to get ignored on a forum of current Leica users.

It is not just about "upgrading" by people who already own an M10/9/240.

How important is it for Leica to appeal to non-Leica users? Against the competition? How does Leica grow their market, not simply maintain it?

Competition? I believe Pixii is the only "competition." 
Only in combination with EVF does Leica widen its net, though very few cameras are as good for MF and as bad for AF.

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On 1/14/2022 at 10:40 AM, Tailwagger said:

Settling in and getting to know the rest of the family.  As is tradition, a quick snapshot of the family.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ecaton:

Skipped the M240, the M10 and was hanging on to the M9 since it hit the market. But this one is calling my name, the lighter, the black version with EVF. Leica, pls put one aside for me.

same for me :)

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Uhhhh! Just looking at it makes my back ache! ;)

(Just kidding - expect you are getting great pleasure from all the members. And 5 cameras ain't bad - counting backups and MF film cameras, I have five also! Six if I count my old high-school Diana - sitting on a shelf for sentimental reasons)

1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

Settling in and getting to know the rest of the family.  As is tradition, a quick snapshot of the family.

 

 

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2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Competition? I believe Pixii is the only "competition."

For those of us sold on the RF focusing and viewing and/or M lenses - with digital - that's probably true.

But when I see the number of comparisons, even on this forum, with Nikon Z, Sony Alpha, Fuji X and so on, it's clear that there are many others who see those as competition Leica has to beat, above and beyond the RF/VF, or the "history."

"Competition" is anyone or anything that someone can spend their money on, instead. It is a Darwinian fact of life, economics, and even art - which one ignores at one's peril.

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3 hours ago, pgk said:

My problem is that I cannot shoot everything on Leica Ms so I have to have another system. This significantly increases my costs. Factor in a second body and the M11 is looking like too much of an expensive luxury to be a 'pro' camera unfortunately.

Understood. I have been there and done that.

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

His response was "I still see 180mm pictures;' - I just don't have to take them anymore."

Which was an epiphany I was already coming to on my own. I don't have to satisfy every customer that comes to me. I can do exactly what the hell I want (which is work exclusively* with Leica M), and still get enough sales to pay the bills.

I do have a Canon 5D2 sitting around, with a 300 + TC for the wildlife or sports shots. Haven't actually had to use it for 5 years or so, because the M (21-135) has been enough to handle everything I choose to take on. But it is a (relatively cheap) "security blanket." ;)

(*Caveat - I've also been making inroads with 6x6 film, But again that is my creative choice, not a requirement. And the 6x6 film cameras can't be updated any more, so no rat race ;) )

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I like the idea of the M11 and its improved performance/features etc compared with my M240 (a porky beast compared with my M10M and M7).  However, checking file numbers I see that in almost two years of M10M ownership I have clocked up just circa 600 photos with the M240.  Muddying the water somewhat is my A7III + Novoflex M lens adapter.  Hmm, some wrestling with my conscience (and bank balance) required prior to a decision, me thinks.

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb adan:

Understood. I have been there and done that.

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

His response was "I still see 180mm pictures;' - I just don't have to take them anymore."

Which was an epiphany I was already coming to on my own. I don't have to satisfy every customer that comes to me. I can do exactly what the hell I want (which is work exclusively* with Leica M), and still get enough sales to pay the bills.

I do have a Canon 5D2 sitting around, with a 300 + TC for the wildlife or sports shots. Haven't actually had to use it for 5 years or so, because the M (21-135) has been enough to handle everything I choose to take on. But it is a (relatively cheap) "security blanket." ;)

(*Caveat - I've also been making inroads with 6x6 film, But again that is my creative choice, not a requirement. And the 6x6 film cameras can't be updated any more, so no rat race ;) )

I absolutely envy you and I would like to do the same. First of all: Normally I have the M10 hanging on my neck with (most probably) my 28mm Summicron attached. Now my "problem": I need AF. For this reason I have the R5 mainly with 50mm 1.2 (RF) and 135mm 2.0 (EF). If I could use the focus fast enough on my M I could probably be without Canon. 

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5 hours ago, adan said:

There is a factor that tends to get ignored on a forum of current Leica users.

It is not just about "upgrading" by people who already own an M10/9/240.

How important is it for Leica to appeal to non-Leica users? Against the competition? How does Leica grow their market, not simply maintain it?

I expect a lot of first time Leica users buy secondhand. I certainly did. If that is correct, then upgrades are growing their share (assuming the people who sold them the secondhand bodies are also upgrading). 

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23 minutes ago, adan said:

Understood. I have been there and done that.

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

His response was "I still see 180mm pictures;' - I just don't have to take them anymore."

Problem is that I also shoot underwater - Sony A7 system - also for macro, copying, old lenses, etc. I do have an Sl for some of this too, but adding an M11 isn't going to happen at the price.

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2 hours ago, adan said:

Then around 1999, I went to a workshop which included on the faculty a Magnum/Nat. Geo photographer who was asked about his switch from carrying a full bag of Nikon gear in the 1970s-80s to simply using an M6 and 35 f/1.4 ASPH since 1990-ish - while remaining a competitive pro. Didn't he miss (or need) his 180mm pictures?

David Alan Harvey ?

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6 hours ago, pgk said:

By offering a cheaper version - as all other makers do. Tried and tested. Cheaper body (with 'lower' specifications), same lenses and lots of upgrade potential.

+1. That would be the smartest move they can make, it would invite a ton of new users to the system. But Leica has only once in their history tried that, it was the Leica CL. During the M5 era.  

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