Switch to Leica SL2-S - Please guide me

[B0tt0mline]

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vor 35 Minuten schrieb jankap:

You know, that with M-mount lenses of any brand you don't have AF?

For the SL I would look for Sigma or Panasonic lenses, if Leica ones cost too much money. The originals for the L-mount, no adapters!

Zooms or primes? A zoom with a small range is helpfull of course. But today you can do a lot with cropping in post also.

Yes, i know that they do not have AF, with fokus peaking this should not be an issue for what I do

[jankap]

32 minutes ago, B0tt0mline said:

Yes, i know that they do not have AF, with fokus peaking this should not be an issue for what I do

Also the f/stop is not lead to the camera. Further the focal length is lead to the camera only with the Leica adapter and only for Leica lenses. Older M-lenses cannot focus closer than 0.7 meter.

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[B0tt0mline]

vor 44 Minuten schrieb jankap:

Also the f/stop is not lead to the camera. Further the focal length is lead to the camera only with the Leica adapter and only for Leica lenses. Older M-lenses cannot focus closer than 0.7 meter.

thanks for the information  - do you see this as big disadvantage?

I hope that I can try it soon.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by B0tt0mline

[jankap]

Well, there are work-arounds for most points. 

With your intended base equipment you can take excellent pictures.

[Alistairm]

It’s an interesting question. I adore M lenses. I love the rendering, the size and the peerless manual focussing experience. My current cameras are M10M, M10R (pickup the M11 tomorrow), SL2, SL2-S and GFX100. 

Since getting the SL2-S it is my “go to” body around the house, where it is fantastic for family shots and indoor photography. However, I usually take one of the higher resolution bodies when I’m going out. 

In terms of your questions. 

- For the SL2-S I need to sell my medium format Fuji GFX50R. Do you think there will be a huge difference between the image quality of the Fuji GFX and the SL2-S with M lenses?

From my personal experience, the answer to this is “yes” in terms of outright image quality. As has been observed above, your final output sizes will influence this, but all other things being equal there just isn’t an “M body” that can substitute for the larger sensor in the Fuji. 

That said, as technically excellent as the Fuji glass is I find that the character of the rendering of the Leica glass more pleasing, especially in my preferred focal ranges. All of my “favourite” lenses are M or SL lenses.

I was very invested in the Hasselblad XCD system (before divesting and moving to Fuji due to my concern about Hasselblad’s long-term viability and product development for the XCD) and my experience was as with Fuji… the lenses are all technically excellent, but lack the character of the Leica offerings, but the larger sensor is just superb. 

- I read several threads here with people using the SL2-S only with M-lenses - is this still an approach you would recommend? I think the size of this setup is really great for myself.

This is absolutely viable. I own every SL lens except the 50 Cron and I still regularly shoot M glass on the SL bodies are hugely enjoy doing so. In fact, so much so that my M10R was very lightly used. (The M10M, on the other hand, gets a flogging.) The SL2 bodies are not much more obtrusive than the M bodies with M glass mounted, but they are vastly more capable and the EVF, IBIS and menu systems are fantastic. I consistently take photos that I love using M glass on SL bodies. 

- I read that people are proposing to use the original Leica L to M adapter - is this still the latest information?

Yep. 

- Would you buy the L to M adapter for each lens? Or can it be removed quickly when switching lenses?

You only need one, although I have two and am happy for it. 

- As first lens I want to get a 50mm one. I was thinking of getting a Voigtländer one. They have so many 50mm ones - which one should I get first?

I can’t comment on this. 

- Which other Voigtländer lenses (or used Leica) lenses are really special and would you recommend (e.g., 21mm and 75mm or 90mm)?

They’re almost all great… but if you like 35, 50 or 75mm focal lengths then the respective Summacron APOs are probably my three favourite lenses. 

 

In closing, just keep in mind that however you cut it you’ll probably be taking a step backwards in outright IQ if you move from the GFX to Leica SL/M ecosystem, and that the Leica system is also very expensive by comparison. I much, much, much prefer shooting my Leica cameras, and especially the SL bodies, but when you get the SD card into the computer the GFX image IQ “wins”. But I just love, love, love shooting M lenses. And I love that the M lenses will still be working perfectly when all the lenses that rely on electronics are long dead and buries. It depends what you’re chasing I suppose. If it’s the experience, then Leica keeps bringing me back. If it’s outright quality, the medium format platforms have a big advantage. And given that you’d have to sell the Fuji to dip your toe into the SL ecosystem, I’m not sure that’s a great idea. 

[littlelio]

I have both GFX 50R and Leica SL2-s. I agree above with post saying GFX IQ is better.

It depends your expectation and usage. For fun, just pick whatever you want. 😉

GFX50R, to be honest, it is a good tool, but not amazing toy. The EVF is not that good, and it is slow, and quite big. Still, the picture out of it is good. I would use it for landscape, not really for portraits.

SL2-s is not small, or light, but better than 50R. It is fine with M lenses, or you can go AF with SL (expensive...) but new Sigma I lenses are good!

You can get some M lenses, even from Voigtlander to use with 50R. Then you can get to Leica if you want.

As long as you take pictures, any hardware is not a waste!

[B0tt0mline]

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Alistairm:

It’s an interesting question. I adore M lenses. I love the rendering, the size and the peerless manual focussing experience. My current cameras are M10M, M10R (pickup the M11 tomorrow), SL2, SL2-S and GFX100. 

Since getting the SL2-S it is my “go to” body around the house, where it is fantastic for family shots and indoor photography. However, I usually take one of the higher resolution bodies when I’m going out. 

In terms of your questions. 

- For the SL2-S I need to sell my medium format Fuji GFX50R. Do you think there will be a huge difference between the image quality of the Fuji GFX and the SL2-S with M lenses?

From my personal experience, the answer to this is “yes” in terms of outright image quality. As has been observed above, your final output sizes will influence this, but all other things being equal there just isn’t an “M body” that can substitute for the larger sensor in the Fuji. 

That said, as technically excellent as the Fuji glass is I find that the character of the rendering of the Leica glass more pleasing, especially in my preferred focal ranges. All of my “favourite” lenses are M or SL lenses.

I was very invested in the Hasselblad XCD system (before divesting and moving to Fuji due to my concern about Hasselblad’s long-term viability and product development for the XCD) and my experience was as with Fuji… the lenses are all technically excellent, but lack the character of the Leica offerings, but the larger sensor is just superb. 

- I read several threads here with people using the SL2-S only with M-lenses - is this still an approach you would recommend? I think the size of this setup is really great for myself.

This is absolutely viable. I own every SL lens except the 50 Cron and I still regularly shoot M glass on the SL bodies are hugely enjoy doing so. In fact, so much so that my M10R was very lightly used. (The M10M, on the other hand, gets a flogging.) The SL2 bodies are not much more obtrusive than the M bodies with M glass mounted, but they are vastly more capable and the EVF, IBIS and menu systems are fantastic. I consistently take photos that I love using M glass on SL bodies. 

- I read that people are proposing to use the original Leica L to M adapter - is this still the latest information?

Yep. 

- Would you buy the L to M adapter for each lens? Or can it be removed quickly when switching lenses?

You only need one, although I have two and am happy for it. 

- As first lens I want to get a 50mm one. I was thinking of getting a Voigtländer one. They have so many 50mm ones - which one should I get first?

I can’t comment on this. 

- Which other Voigtländer lenses (or used Leica) lenses are really special and would you recommend (e.g., 21mm and 75mm or 90mm)?

They’re almost all great… but if you like 35, 50 or 75mm focal lengths then the respective Summacron APOs are probably my three favourite lenses. 

 

In closing, just keep in mind that however you cut it you’ll probably be taking a step backwards in outright IQ if you move from the GFX to Leica SL/M ecosystem, and that the Leica system is also very expensive by comparison. I much, much, much prefer shooting my Leica cameras, and especially the SL bodies, but when you get the SD card into the computer the GFX image IQ “wins”. But I just love, love, love shooting M lenses. And I love that the M lenses will still be working perfectly when all the lenses that rely on electronics are long dead and buries. It depends what you’re chasing I suppose. If it’s the experience, then Leica keeps bringing me back. If it’s outright quality, the medium format platforms have a big advantage. And given that you’d have to sell the Fuji to dip your toe into the SL ecosystem, I’m not sure that’s a great idea. 

Thanks, that really helps!

I only used the GFX 50R for vacation shops but never did large prints. I enjoyed the pixelpeeping opportunities but also did not like the overall character

I just hope that the SL2-S' 24MP are enough, because I discovered that with my Q2 I sometimes crop a lot when taking pictures of our newborn baby (might be because auf the 28mm).

[B0tt0mline]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb littlelio:

I have both GFX 50R and Leica SL2-s. I agree above with post saying GFX IQ is better.

It depends your expectation and usage. For fun, just pick whatever you want. 😉

GFX50R, to be honest, it is a good tool, but not amazing toy. The EVF is not that good, and it is slow, and quite big. Still, the picture out of it is good. I would use it for landscape, not really for portraits.

SL2-s is not small, or light, but better than 50R. It is fine with M lenses, or you can go AF with SL (expensive...) but new Sigma I lenses are good!

You can get some M lenses, even from Voigtlander to use with 50R. Then you can get to Leica if you want.

As long as you take pictures, any hardware is not a waste!

Also thanks to you - also a good vote into the SL2-S direction.

[B0tt0mline]

Got the SL2-S today

[B0tt0mline]

Gentlemen, one more question:

I just read that at one of Steve Huff‘s reviews: „On the SL2-S Leica does not allow us to use third party M glass while keeping 5 Axis IBIS and Auto ISO functionality unless yo use only their $435 adapter.“

Is this true? Does it mean with the adapter (I already got it) I can use all funcstions?

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by B0tt0mline

[beewee]

2 hours ago, B0tt0mline said:

Gentlemen, one more question:

I just read that at one of Steve Huff‘s reviews: „On the SL2-S Leica does not allow us to use third party M glass while keeping 5 Axis IBIS and Auto ISO functionality unless yo use only their $435 adapter.“

Is this true? Does it mean with the adapter (I already got it) I can use all funcstions?

 

I think this only happens if your lens is not 6-bit coded and you do not select an M-lens from the list of options from Leica. It’s true you won’t find third-party M-lenses in the list but if you pick the same focal length with hopefully similar characteristics, for example Zeiss ZM 35/2 -> 35mm Summicron-M ASPH, you should get decent IBIS performance. Not sure why Auto ISO would be limited in any case regardless of what lens whether you choose from the list or not since the camera does TTL metering.

[Ba Erv]

I can also confirm it’s not true; at least not with the current firmware.  I use a TT Artisan adapter and it works fine.  As beewee stated, just choose the closest similar lens profile in the menu.  You won’t have issues with IBIS nor Auto ISO.

[2M6TTLs]

On 1/13/2022 at 7:02 PM, threeseed said:

SL2 = 835g ... M10-R = 660g. It really isn't a huge difference in practice after a while. And the lenses tend to vary much more wildly in weight.

And the reason SL2 is so great with M lenses is because (a) IBIS, (b) easy to focus a 1.0 or 1.2 lens and (c) easy to compose a 21mm, 40mm, 90mm or 135mm lens.

 I find tat the M cameras feel heavy for their size whereas the SL series just feel as heavy as i expect and are more comfortable to hold. I was surprised at how I could carry the SL2s and 24-70 quite comfortably really and it's much more versatile than an M, has weather sealing and best of all, one of the best viewfinders out there. I'd say I even appreciate the weight in my hand when I'm taking shots as it helps me get steadier and more precise framing which is a different thing to IBIS which tackles camera shake.

On 1/13/2022 at 11:51 PM, jankap said:

You know, that with M-mount lenses of any brand you don't have AF?

For the SL I would look for Sigma or Panasonic lenses, if Leica ones cost too much money. The originals for the L-mount, no adapters!

Zooms or primes? A zoom with a small range is helpfull of course. But today you can do a lot with cropping in post also.

On 1/13/2022 at 11:51 PM, jankap said:

You know, that with M-mount lenses of any brand you don't have AF?

For the SL I would look for Sigma or Panasonic lenses, if Leica ones cost too much money. The originals for the L-mount, no adapters!

Zooms or primes? A zoom with a small range is helpfull of course. But today you can do a lot with cropping in post also.