AZN Posted January 12, 2022 Share #41 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Am guessing the 60MP images (RAW DNGs) are still uncompressed and in the 120 MB range? Edited January 12, 2022 by AZN Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 12, 2022 Posted January 12, 2022 Hi AZN, Take a look here M11 - My first impressions of the best digital M yet. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
SrMi Posted January 12, 2022 Share #42 Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, AZN said: Am guessing the 60MP images (RAW DNGs) are still uncompressed and in the 120 MB range? Check the leaked spec: L-DNG loss-free compression 70-120MB . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share #43 Posted January 12, 2022 39 minutes ago, wolan said: Can you share a couple of pictures on your Instagram account? There should be no Leica police there You’d be surprised that it’s where they actually are. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share #44 Posted January 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, SrMi said: Are you saying that EVF/LCD is running all the time (aka live view), or that sensor is being accessed while the camera is on? I am saying that sensor is opened all the time, wether live view is on or off. Resulting in a feeling similar as live view on the M10, even if the screen is actually off. It bothers me most when turning on the camera. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 12, 2022 Share #45 Posted January 12, 2022 Just now, Steven said: I am saying that sensor is opened all the time, wether live view is on or off. Resulting in a feeling similar as live view on the M10, even if the screen is actually off. It bothers me most when turning on the camera. "Live view mode feeling" of M10 bothers me mostly when shooting, though I can understand that it can be bothersome at startup as well. On the other hand, people complain when the sensor is open when the camera is turned off (dust, etc.). AFAIK, Nikon Z9 also opens shutter at startup. However, I have not heard anyone complaining about it. So maybe it is more dampened? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted January 12, 2022 Share #46 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) As someone who sometimes turns on LV to access the available metering modes when actually framing/focussing/shooting using the OVF (but then always has to quickly turn it off again due to the lag of the close-open-close again shutter sequence) redesigning the shutter to be default open to allow metering from the sensor is quite attractive IF there is now no additional lag compared to non-LV shooting on previous Ms (notwithstanding the "clunk-you-hate"). Question - can you programme a button to cycle through the alternative metering modes ie. Spot/CW/Multi? Edited January 12, 2022 by NigelG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted January 12, 2022 Share #47 Posted January 12, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) From your descriptions I'm guessing that Leica have taken the view that with the redesign of the M11 shutter and the new Visoflex they have looked to improve the usability of the M for people who want/need/prefer an EVF (or conversely and maybe perversely want a Leica M but don't fancy using the OVF rangefinder) without affecting the basic OVF rangefinder operation. This seems a sensible way of tamping down the "I want an EVF version of the M" without actually making one. The issue is whether the changes they have made are actually going to affect the key OVF/Rangefinder standard operation of the M which is for many users somewhat sacrosanct. I guessing this is the "divisiveness" that you have alluded to... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trequartista Posted January 12, 2022 Share #48 Posted January 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, NigelG said: From your descriptions I'm guessing that Leica have taken the view that with the redesign of the M11 shutter and the new Visoflex they have looked to improve the usability of the M for people who want/need/prefer an EVF (or conversely and maybe perversely want a Leica M but don't fancy using the OVF rangefinder) without affecting the basic OVF rangefinder operation. This seems a sensible way of tamping down the "I want an EVF version of the M" without actually making one. The issue is whether the changes they have made are actually going to affect the key OVF/Rangefinder standard operation of the M which is for many users somewhat sacrosanct. I guessing this is the "divisiveness" that you have alluded to... Which again, does not make that much sense. And if they all go in for Apple-like marketing, they maybe just have to design two versions of M cameras: One that is more traditional with the optical viewfinder only (and maybe the external EVF as an add-on) and a more modern M with an electronic viewfinder only, that is powerful and built in. And the SL would still have its own niche as more generic mirrorless camera that has image stabilisation, autofocus and video capability. 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted January 12, 2022 Share #49 Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, trequartista said: Which again, does not make that much sense. And if they all go in for Apple-like marketing, they maybe just have to design two versions of M cameras: One that is more traditional with the optical viewfinder only (and maybe the external EVF as an add-on) and a more modern M with an electronic viewfinder only, that is powerful and built in. And the SL would still have its own niche as more generic mirrorless camera that has image stabilisation, autofocus and video capability. What you just stated makes a lot of sense - let's see what they are going to unleash tomorrow! I may change my opinion on the shutter thing as well - I don't want to overjudge - but clearly there is a growing demand in having a separate M with an integrated EVF and they should finally follow that path instead of creating somehow a hybrid which can not fulfil requirements from both worlds equally. I hope that my concerns are not valid at all and I am going to end up buying an M11! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocity Posted January 12, 2022 Share #50 Posted January 12, 2022 Thanks for the heads up. It looks like a great camera, lots of new improvements for sure. If I were using Leica beyond my reportage / documentary work I might be inclined to cough up the big price tag for the 11 but my M10-P is cruising along just fine so I think I am set. I use other systems for fine art and commercial work, my investment in the past year or two has been there... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crem Posted January 12, 2022 Share #51 Posted January 12, 2022 @StevenI think you once said you owned a Sony A7R4? Do you think the M11 has better high ISO performance than the A7R4? There is a lot of speculation that the M11 and the A7R4 use the same sensor. I used to own an A7R4 and I never liked ISOs above 6400. I felt that 6400 was ok, but colors and noise started being a problem around 6400 and definitely above. Very roughly speaking, I think my old A7R4 had about a 1 stop or so noise & color advantage over my M10R (I try not to use it above 3200). Curious what you are thinking. I saw in another thread you liked the M11 results at 12800 and that really surprised me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted January 12, 2022 Share #52 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Steven said: I have tried to turn off the mechanical shutter, and if your ok with the silent, vibration less operation, it reacts VERY VERY FAST! But yes, you can turn on electronic shutter all the time. I commented about this in the other thread Steven and maybe you missed it, but be careful with the electronic shutter. It has to scan a high resolution sensor, it will not be fast so you may get rolling shutter effects and/or banding. Try it on a moving subject and you will see. Edited January 12, 2022 by Daedalus2000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted January 12, 2022 Share #53 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, trequartista said: Which again, does not make that much sense. And if they all go in for Apple-like marketing, they maybe just have to design two versions of M cameras: One that is more traditional with the optical viewfinder only (and maybe the external EVF as an add-on) and a more modern M with an electronic viewfinder only, that is powerful and built in. And the SL would still have its own niche as more generic mirrorless camera that has image stabilisation, autofocus and video capability. Maybe revist the heated/fundamentalist threads re "M = Messsucher so there can be no EVF Leica M". My view is that based on the specs and @Steven's descriptions Leica have pushed the M as far as they can towards the M-evf while still keeping the rangefinder...given the apparent abandonment of any kind of hybrid VF AFAIK Edited January 12, 2022 by NigelG 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktsa5239 Posted January 12, 2022 Share #54 Posted January 12, 2022 @Steven what about the image blur problem with lower shutter speeds that you encountered when first transitioning to M10-R? Do you feel like you need to go even faster 1/500 or something for the 60MP M11 to not get blur? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted January 12, 2022 Share #55 Posted January 12, 2022 Is motion blur at slow speeds still an issue? Like it is with M10R. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 12, 2022 Share #56 Posted January 12, 2022 Keep in mind if Steven is in Paris it is after midnight there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightsqueez Posted January 12, 2022 Share #57 Posted January 12, 2022 SLOWER than the M10??? I have a Nikon D3s that turns on instantaneously, either from off or sleep. It’s 13 years old!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 12, 2022 Share #58 Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Steven said: I'm always using the 60MP. I have an unlimited company dropbox account for 60 dollars a month. I have stored 27 terabytes of photos and videos in the past five years, neatly organised, by dates and topics. Therefore, I have absolutely no advantage or incentive to shoot in lower res mode. But I think it's quite innovative, and its cool that its there. I remember when I gave this info on another thread a year ago exactly, no one believed me. Not because they didn't believe in me. Because they didn't believe it would be possible. Bravo Leica for making such an amazing camera. From Kai’s video it said that shooting at 36mp the dynamic range increases by one stop (and I’m assuming 18MP would further increase it) so it could be interesting to test it out and see if there’s any difference in output (ie better lowlight performance / dynamic range) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightsqueez Posted January 12, 2022 Share #59 Posted January 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, dkmoore said: Is motion blur at slow speeds still an issue? Like it is with M10R. Just use the new half baked electronic shutter… but let me introduce you to your new friend; rolling shutter effect. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 12, 2022 Share #60 Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, tightsqueez said: Just use the new half baked electronic shutter… but let me introduce you to your new friend; rolling shutter effect. If it’s anything like the Hasselblad XD1 electronic shutter you can only use it on a tripod and definitely not to shoot street or people. That being said, given ISO 64 and 1/4000 I think most can get away with the mechanical shutter only. You’d only need an ND filter if you’re shooting with a summilux or noctilux under bright sunlight. And even at f1.4, I’m sure it’s ok to slight overexpose and then bring it down in post without using an ND filter. Doing a quick calculation using the Sunny 16 rule: ISO 64, 1/60, F16 as the baseline…from there: F11 1/125, F8 1/250, F5.6 1/500, F4 1/1000, F2.8 1/2000, F2 1/4000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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