250swb Posted January 11, 2022 Share #41 Posted January 11, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 8 minutes ago, Rona!d said: All techniques have their pros and cons and we shouldn´t make a religion out of our favourites. We should be open minded in all directions. "Dunning-Kruger effect - in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general." I think the lack of open-mindedness, awareness, and assumed superior authority could be aimed at both anti-hipsters and the hipsters themselves, with the proviso that only one side, the anti-hipsters, are unironically outraged their cultural domain is being culturally trodden on. A piece in the Pacific Standard by David Dunning is both revealing and funny https://psmag.com/social-justice/confident-idiots-92793 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 11, 2022 Posted January 11, 2022 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Hipsters' interest in film cameras. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Al Brown Posted January 11, 2022 Share #42 Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) Every time a hipster uses a digital camera, an indie band splits and a craft beer brewery goes out of business. (Jokes aside, it is great that the film and analog is getting a revival. Not great for prices, but great for photography). Edited January 11, 2022 by Al Brown 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted January 11, 2022 Share #43 Posted January 11, 2022 14 hours ago, Ornello said: What is a 'hipster'? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted January 11, 2022 Share #44 Posted January 11, 2022 15 hours ago, frame-it said: yes its right here https://www.l-camera-forum.com/forum/216-leica-m-system/ Let's not forget this. So spot on when reading threads like this one 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share #45 Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, mikemgb said: The same could be said about film, digital is superior in every way. I'm not sure about that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted January 11, 2022 Share #46 Posted January 11, 2022 On 1/7/2022 at 1:16 PM, Ornello said: I am not expressing any opinion on this here, just curious what others think about it. I see many 'young folks' and 'hipsters' haunting my favorite camera shop, talking about vintage cameras and buying them, and buying film. The hipsters have more money than the 'young folks' (some high schools around here offer film photography classes, and parents are buying 'student cameras' for their kids). The hipsters are a curious lot. More than any other group, they seem prone to rely on (often dubious) info they acquire from the internet and their friends. The good thing is that it has stimulated interest in film and darkroom. The bad thing is that they are often not getting a good start on technique. (I sometimes listen to their conversations.) I switched to film in 2012. Ex photog who has done it on film called me as hipster. Back in 2012. Year later I met him with ... two film cameras. Forums is dead form of communications and learning for young. Every photography forum I know is old people and shrinking. The only web site I'm aware of with newbies is Reddit. And it is most primitive forums site I ever seen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted January 11, 2022 Share #47 Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I already have the headline for tomorrow's edition: "Old man yells at hipsters that are stuck in the past while loading his manual rangefinder film camera from 1954" Edited January 11, 2022 by jaapv copyrighted material removed 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share #48 Posted January 11, 2022 Today at the camera shop: An oldster with two buddies, obviously retired. He was prattling on about digital stuff and 'cards' this and that. He seemed to know what he was talking about, but I have no clue. He left with a Canon R6(?) under his arm Two young people (a couple in their 20s) looking at film cameras on the 'student camera' shelf. They were not hipsters. The issue? Money, of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 11, 2022 Share #49 Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) I think I should add a corollary to "Adan's Law" "If you mention vinyl (or watches, or cars) on a photo thread, you have automatically ended whatever discussion you were taking part in." (Apologies to Michael Godwin). Edited January 11, 2022 by adan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share #50 Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, willeica said: Possibly a relevant question here, but I don't know or care what the answer is. You speak about such people like David Attenborough describing a exotic animal of some kind, except that there is an air of disapproval added. Associating film cameras with any type of person is pure claptrap. Film cameras are for everyone. Anyone who wants to use film for photography should know that there are plenty of facilities and places where they can learn how to use film for photography. The number of people using film grows every day, for some people it is the first time, but for others it is the second or third time around. Not only do I remember shellac 78s from over 50 years ago, I bought some last year. The 78s contained material which I already had on LP and CD, but I wanted to have it and to listen to it on 78s, the medium for which it was originally recorded. 'Obsolete' is a relative concept. What is obsolete for you, might not be obsolete for me and so on. What is it that really concerns you about people using film cameras? Maybe they seem to be having a lot of fun, which is their business and their's alone. William I have not disapproved of anyone using film. I am simply concerned that it is merely a hipster 'counter-culture' 'fashion statement'. Everything the hipster does is a fashion statement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_(contemporary_subculture) Today at the camera shop: An oldster with two buddies, obviously retired. He was prattling on about digital stuff and 'cards' this and that. He seemed to know what he was talking about, but I have no clue. He left with a Canon R6(?) under his arm Two young people (a couple in their 20s) looking at 35mm film cameras on the 'student camera' shelf. They were not hipsters. I asked them if they were taking a photo class, and the girl said 'this is my first film camera'. The issue? Money, of course. Edited January 11, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted January 11, 2022 Share #51 Posted January 11, 2022 I don't really know what a hipster is... So a while back I asked a young friend of mine and she replied that a hipster is someone who deliberately shuns popular/current items and activities seeking instead alternatives. (her definition not mine, as she was only like 21 or something so I assumed she knew...) I guess if you get enough people shunning current trends then you end up with a trend... imagine if so many photographers turned to film because it was trend that you actually had to buy a Sony A7x or something to be a hipster? 😅 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share #52 Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Adam Bonn said: I don't really know what a hipster is... So a while back I asked a young friend of mine and she replied that a hipster is someone who deliberately shuns popular/current items and activities seeking instead alternatives. (her definition not mine, as she was only like 21 or something so I assumed she knew...) I guess if you get enough people shunning current trends then you end up with a trend... imagine if so many photographers turned to film because it was trend that you actually had to buy a Sony A7x or something to be a hipster? 😅 We can only dream! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 12, 2022 Share #53 Posted January 12, 2022 Twenty OT posts have been moved here. Please do not create a completely OT thread within a thread. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted January 12, 2022 Share #54 Posted January 12, 2022 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted January 12, 2022 Share #55 Posted January 12, 2022 15 hours ago, Ornello said: I am simply concerned that it is merely a hipster 'counter-culture' 'fashion statement'. Everything the hipster does is a fashion statement. I'm 72 with short hair and no ponytail and I collect and use film cameras. I have no interest in being fashionable. I have donated old cameras and equipment to a local photography school which teaches film photography to young students. I'm definitely not a hipster, whatever that might be, but I do know a lot of people like myself. I cannot, for the life of me, associate film photography with hipsters or counter culture or any of that nonsense. You appear to be obsessed with this notion about something that appears to be non existent. As for young people, they take digital photos with their phones a lot of the time. Their interest in film photography is not just related to finance, but to something much deeper about the nature of the medium and its associated processes. The only area where this might be relevant is in respect of the cameras they might use, but there is a plentiful supply of cheap film cameras available. The only area where you ring true is in respect of your comment about the 'oldster', as you could be talking about a lot of the contributors on the Leica Forum. This 'age divide' has to be worrying for the manufacturers of digital system cameras, of course. William 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share #56 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, willeica said: I'm 72 with short hair and no ponytail and I collect and use film cameras. I have no interest in being fashionable. I have donated old cameras and equipment to a local photography school which teaches film photography to young students. I'm definitely not a hipster, whatever that might be, but I do know a lot of people like myself. I cannot, for the life of me, associate film photography with hipsters or counter culture or any of that nonsense. You appear to be obsessed with this notion about something that appears to be non existent. As for young people, they take digital photos with their phones a lot of the time. Their interest in film photography is not just related to finance, but to something much deeper about the nature of the medium and its associated processes. The only area where this might be relevant is in respect of the cameras they might use, but there is a plentiful supply of cheap film cameras available. The only area where you ring true is in respect of your comment about the 'oldster', as you could be talking about a lot of the contributors on the Leica Forum. This 'age divide' has to be worrying for the manufacturers of digital system cameras, of course. William I'm 72 with short hair too! I think the young people I saw yesterday were simply taking advantage of getting some nice used film equipment cheaply. They cannot afford $5000 bodies and $8000 lenses...yet. The worry I have is that the 'hipsters' will abandon film as just another passé fad. Another point is that the 'hipster' is unlikely to study and learn enough about film to get first-class results. Edited January 12, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted January 12, 2022 Share #57 Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Ornello said: I'm 72 with short hair too! I think the young people I saw yesterday were simply taking advantage of getting some nice used film equipment cheaply. They cannot afford $5000 bodies and $8000 lenses...yet. The worry I have is that the 'hipsters' will abandon film as just another passé fad. Another point is that the 'hipster' is unlikely to study and learn enough about film to get first-class results. I don’t recognise the people you are talking about, but, even if I did, what you describe would not bother me in the slightest. Live and let live is my motto. I also do my bit for young people who cannot afford expensive equipment. In addition I’m about to donate a camera to our national archive as it was used to create a collection which has just gone into the archive. I’m a doer rather than a commentator by nature William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornello Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share #58 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, willeica said: I don’t recognise the people you are talking about, but, even if I did, what you describe would not bother me in the slightest. Live and let live is my motto. I also do my bit for young people who cannot afford expensive equipment. In addition I’m about to donate a camera to our national archive as it was used to create a collection which has just gone into the archive. I’m a doer rather than a commentator by nature William Perhaps I am misunderstood. The 'hipster' is primarily an American phenomenon, so you may not encounter them in Ireland. They don't 'bother' me; I am simply concerned that they may usurp the role of 'film photographer', and that the novice may copy them and their lack of deep knowledge of film photography. The 'hipster' doesn't know much except how to imitate. Everything is a 'fashion statement'. The hipster is a 'poser'. Here is some info: https://www.vice.com/en/article/ppxxzn/hw-we-asked-an-expert-why-people-hate-hipsters-501 https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/227529/hipsters-complaining-about-poser-hipsters-invading-brooklyn By the way, how are Barry, John, Eamon, Jim, and Charles doing? Have you drunk the unfortunate cup of tea? Where is Oats? Edited January 12, 2022 by Ornello Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted January 12, 2022 Share #59 Posted January 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Ornello said: Perhaps I am misunderstood. The 'hipster' is primarily an American phenomenon, so you may not encounter them in Ireland. They don't 'bother' me; I am simply concerned that they may usurp the role of 'film photographer', and that the novice may copy them and their lack of deep knowledge of film photography. The 'hipster' doesn't know much except how to imitate. Everything is a 'fashion statement'. The hipster is a 'poser'. Here is some info: https://www.vice.com/en/article/ppxxzn/hw-we-asked-an-expert-why-people-hate-hipsters-501 https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/227529/hipsters-complaining-about-poser-hipsters-invading-brooklyn By the way, how are Barry, John, Eamon, Jim, and Charles doing? Have you drunk the unfortunate cup of tea? Where is Oats? You are representing a phenomenon based on the rapid devolution of culture according to your own unique interpretation, but isn't a pontificating commentator full of self important wisdom equally a 'poser'? You are denigrating other people using film cameras as if the hipsters are trash, but you have nothing to offer, where is the creativity in your photography, nobody has seen it have they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted January 12, 2022 Share #60 Posted January 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Ornello said: I am simply concerned that they may usurp the role of 'film photographer', and that the novice may copy them and their lack of deep knowledge of film photography. but that's fine, whatever works for them,, and it will evolve into something else, there are still many resources for people who want to learn photography the "traditional" way Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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