Leica LTM viewfinder seviceability?

[Anbaric]

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On 12/31/2021 at 9:55 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

I am mulling over a Leica iiif to support my recent enthusiasm for film cameras (M4, large format). As always my enthusiasm may be headed off by common sense (how will another film camera help me take better/different pictures) and my finance director (ditto). Meanwhile I am in the enjoyable uninhibited investigation phase.

I can see a number of iiif bodies for sale at dealers in the UK, but all have something that doesn't quite match what I want: they come with a lens I don't want, there's reference to fungus, it's the black dial version, or whatever. Looking further, I can see three coming up at auction in the next month (NOT ebay). The trouble with these, and with some of those from dealers, is that they would be difficult to inspect physically, and I would assume that any would require a CLA.

So my question is: is there any aspect of the operation of LTM Leicas that cannot be fixed by one of the usual repairers? I have read that shutter timing, shutter curtains can all be fixed fairly easily. I saw one post here that said even bodies can be straightened if they've been sat upon. What about viewfinder and rangefinder optics? Can they be dismantled and repaired? Is there balsam to separate that cannot be replaced? Anything else that can't be fixed with such cameras?

All advice would be welcome.   

Never let common sense get in your way! The excuse perfectly reasonable justification for buying a IIIf is of course that it is a very compact, high quality camera you can slip into a jacket pocket when it isn't convenient to carry something larger, and I'm sure you'll be able to convince your finance director of the absolute necessity of acquiring one so that you don't miss out on many exciting photographic opportunities! Or something.

I think pretty much anything can be fixed by the best technicians (e.g. Cameraworks-uk), but they tend to be oversubscribed and you may have to wait quite a few months for the work to be done. In that case, it may be worth being patient until a camera comes up for sale that needs little or nothing doing to it. I once enquired at a well-known dealer about servicing a camera with a dim RF image, and was told that while their technician would clean the finder optics (which might be all that was necessary) as part of the standard (and pretty quick) service, they didn't replace the RF mirror. Alan Starkie, on the other hand, replaces the beamsplitter mirror routinely, but usually has a long lead time.

At this point, the majority of LTM cameras on sale probably have some service issue or other, such as dim RF images, inaccurate speeds, sticking shutters, cracked blinds, dry film transport, or degraded vulcanite. Take a look at Peter Loy's site and, at the time of writing, most of the LTM cameras he lists need something done to restore them to full working order. This isn't because he has bad stock, it's just that he's particularly careful to describe every issue, which I wish all dealers did. If you buy a camera he describes as fully working, you can be sure it is. Peter and some other dealers like Aperture sometimes list recently serviced cameras, which would be ideal if you can wait for one. In any case, I think it's worth buying from someone who offers returns and ideally a guarantee. If you don't have this, be prepared to factor in both the cost and time of a full service by an expert. You may find a nice camera more quickly if you're prepared to be flexible about the model. A IIIa, IIIb or IIIc will for practical purposes work as well as a IIIf, except for flash, and the minor disadvantage of more widely separated finder eyepieces on the IIIa.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Anbaric

[LocalHero1953]

Thank you @Anbaric for your advice!

I have already negotiated the first hurdle, convincing my finance director that this is an acceptable business move; I can also justify it to myself by using a LTM and the M4 for different film stock.

I have spent quite a bit of time looking at what's available here in the UK, in the rest of Europe and in Japan. For the tasks of buying online, running a film through and (perhaps) returning I would prefer to buy in this country, though from past experience I have confidence in a number of the EU sources, and I have had a couple of recommendations for Japanese dealers (e.g. Kanto).

For practical convenience I would prefer modern shutter speed intervals. I think I would use 1/1000, but probably not slow speeds, nor self timer. This means the later IIf is also on my radar, and they seem to be cheaper. Between the IIf and IIIf Red Dials, there is plenty of choice, and stock seems to turn over, so one in good condition should be fairly easy to find. 

A number of them seem to be offered with lenses, which is a mixed blessing - I would prefer an Elmar Red Scale with coatings, might accept a Summitar, but don't really want a Summarit.

Finally, there is my wildcard criterion, which is that it would be nice to have one from my birth year, 1953!

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[LocalHero1953]

Result: just bought a IIf red dial with Elmar 5cm f/3.5 black scale. Both in excellent condition - the lens is superb. 
The body dates from 1952-53 according to the wiki, and the lens from 1951.
It has been a thought-provoking search since my last post:

• I found a great iiif + Elmar online early on and bought it, only to find that a LUF member had bought it the day before and the website had not been updated. At least the seller called me to apologise. It made me slightly cautious about talking about my interest in such cameras here; no reason to think this thread prompted the member concerned (or any others) to get active in the market, but it was a risk I decided to minimise going forward.
• There are plenty of suitable cameras online in the UK, the rest of Europe and Japan. Given the availability, I eliminated Japan (and the USA) as sources because of the additional import and VAT costs, which are difficult to quantify. For sources in the EU I have family in Belgium to whom it could be sent - but that meant I'd either need a 3-6 month warranty, or I'd need to meet up with the family soon after delivery, to check condition.
• Cameras available from the EU seems to be priced higher, often in good condition, but do not have a rapid turnover. UK stock is cheaper, with a wider range of condition, and turns over more quickly.
• Mine came from the UK, but I never quite managed to eliminate this one from my short list - though I priced in a reskin!   

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Edited January 31, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[spydrxx]

Congratulations on your purchase. The iif was my first Leica Barnack, although I had previously owned a Leotax and Canon P, and I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have mine. Mine was a bit of a chance buy, as it was missing most of its vulcanite, slightly rusty, and I really wasn't certain of its working condition, but the price was incredibly low. I had it CLA'd and reskinned it myself and it is like new and a permanent working  member in my home.

[LocalHero1953]

6 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

Congratulations on your purchase. The iif was my first Leica Barnack, although I had previously owned a Leotax and Canon P, and I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have mine. Mine was a bit of a chance buy, as it was missing most of its vulcanite, slightly rusty, and I really wasn't certain of its working condition, but the price was incredibly low. I had it CLA'd and reskinned it myself and it is like new and a permanent working  member in my home.

 I went for one in as good a cosmetic condition as I could find, on the basis that most of the working parts could be fixed - and of course I could replace the vulcanite.