Leica LTM viewfinder seviceability?

[LocalHero1953]

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I am mulling over a Leica iiif to support my recent enthusiasm for film cameras (M4, large format). As always my enthusiasm may be headed off by common sense (how will another film camera help me take better/different pictures) and my finance director (ditto). Meanwhile I am in the enjoyable uninhibited investigation phase.

I can see a number of iiif bodies for sale at dealers in the UK, but all have something that doesn't quite match what I want: they come with a lens I don't want, there's reference to fungus, it's the black dial version, or whatever. Looking further, I can see three coming up at auction in the next month (NOT ebay). The trouble with these, and with some of those from dealers, is that they would be difficult to inspect physically, and I would assume that any would require a CLA.

So my question is: is there any aspect of the operation of LTM Leicas that cannot be fixed by one of the usual repairers? I have read that shutter timing, shutter curtains can all be fixed fairly easily. I saw one post here that said even bodies can be straightened if they've been sat upon. What about viewfinder and rangefinder optics? Can they be dismantled and repaired? Is there balsam to separate that cannot be replaced? Anything else that can't be fixed with such cameras?

All advice would be welcome.   

Edited December 31, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[kalkadan]

Paul - you and I have similar interests (see website - I think your shots are better).  I have a IIIf red dial with the 1/1000 shutter - and an M4.  Only 2 of the theatre shots profiled on the website were shot with the M4, none with the IIIf.  In my experience most of the things referred to in your post can be attended to by experts in the States, the UK and in Europe.  I have a 1932 LTM lens refurbished by a guy in Germany, the IIIf was done by Youxin Ye in the States.  DAG and Sherry Krauter in the States (who worked on my M4 & some M and Ltm lenses) are legendary for the work they can do.  Over the years I am pretty sure I have seen guys in England who can attend to the viewfinder & rangefinder optics - don't have the details to hand right now.  And further, as I remember it, balsam separation can be fixed or the part replaced in the viewfinder/rangefinder glass.  If I can find the links I will post them for you.  The experts on this site in the LTM/Barnack section [Leica Collectors & Historica] should be able to set you straight on all these things - and Google should throw up the UK chaps.

P.S. Peter Loy in London (Google) is a mine of information - I have purchased lenses from Peter.  Always good.  Ask him too.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by kalkadan
found

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[LocalHero1953]

Thanks, Dan. You're right about similar interests (your shot here, and mine here!) and I will spend more time looking at your pages - I can learn a lot from them. (And it's a reminder to update my site.) I haven't yet used a film camera for theatre or work for others - I don't think I would trust myself yet. Although I spent around 40 years shooting film, my own standards and ways of working have changed so much since digital that I find I am learning it all over again. 

Thanks also for the reassurance about servicing - I am aware of a few experts in the UK who work on LTMs. I wasn't sure which thread to post in - I shall visit the Leica Collectors section as well. 

[Pyrogallol]

You should be able to buy a good one from somewhere like Red Dot Cameras or Peter Loy that does not need servicing for a few years.

Red Dot have 24 screw bodies to choose from https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/253-screw-bodies

and I have bought several cameras and lenses from Peter Loy.

http://www.peterloy.com/stock-list.php

Edited December 31, 2021 by Pyrogallol

[earleygallery]

Wait for the 'right' one to come along. I highly recommend getting one with a 5cm Elmar 3.5 as it's just such a lovely usable combination.

I'm not aware of anything that can't be repaired. Dull rangefinders can benefit from cleaning and/or replacement of a small mirror.

I bought my lllf in the early 80's and it's worked fine since then with just use, no CLA's.

[LocalHero1953]

22 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

Wait for the 'right' one to come along. I highly recommend getting one with a 5cm Elmar 3.5 as it's just such a lovely usable combination.

I'm not aware of anything that can't be repaired. Dull rangefinders can benefit from cleaning and/or replacement of a small mirror.

I bought my lllf in the early 80's and it's worked fine since then with just use, no CLA's.

Thanks. I have in mind either the Elmar or a Summaron 3.5cm/2.8. I've had both before. 

[Doc Henry]

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Hi Paul, ... in case you want to buy ,  I bought from Luc Bouvier and some of the cameras are serviced and guaranteed, 

may be there will be something that may interest you , he  is available on the phone and sends to Great Britain.

https://www.french-camera.com/en/cameras-leica-xsl-243_290.html

Happy New Year Eve. 

Henry

PS: Phone numbers and address are at the end of the page.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Doc Henry

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Doc Henry said:

Hi Paul, ... in case you want to buy ,  I bought from Luc Bouvier and some of the cameras are serviced and guaranteed, 

may be there will be something that may interest you , he  is available on the phone and sends to Great Britain.

https://www.french-camera.com/en/cameras-leica-xsl-243_290.html

Happy New Year Eve. 

Henry

PS: Phone numbers and address are at the end of the page.

Thanks, Doc. For EU purchases I have a daughter in Brussels which helps to eliminate import duties - though delivery has to wait till one of us crosses the channel.

[frame-it]

13 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Thanks. I have in mind either the Elmar or a Summaron 3.5cm/2.8. I've had both before. 

also try out the coated elmar 35/3.5 LTM..beautiful lens

iiif Elmar 35mm ltm, superia 400asa 3 shots stitched in lightroom

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[250swb]

Some dealers commonly cited as 'go to' aren't immune from selling dodgy cameras advertised in Ex++ condition, but they do offer returns polices and warranties, so buy from a dealer. And decide if you are going to be picky about updated cameras, like a IIIc updated to a IIIf (or whatever), check the serial numbers to confirm what the camera started out as. 

[willeica]

23 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Thanks, Dan. You're right about similar interests (your shot here, and mine here!) and I will spend more time looking at your pages - I can learn a lot from them. (And it's a reminder to update my site.) I haven't yet used a film camera for theatre or work for others - I don't think I would trust myself yet. Although I spent around 40 years shooting film, my own standards and ways of working have changed so much since digital that I find I am learning it all over again. 

Thanks also for the reassurance about servicing - I am aware of a few experts in the UK who work on LTMs. I wasn't sure which thread to post in - I shall visit the Leica Collectors section as well. 

The most difficult issue with postwar LTMs is the image in the rangefinder which can go faint or even disappear altogether. Due to issues with silvering on mirrors this can be difficult to fix. I have some examples, particularly IIIcs, where the image is very faint. You would need to have this checked in advance or you would need to be sure that your CLA person can handle the issue. Other issues such as shutters, wind on etc are much easier to fix. Strangely enough, prewar LTMs with rangefinders rarely have this issue, so I imagine it is down to the materials used. If you want to use flash with a postwar f camera, you would also need to have that checked. That is about it.

William 

[wlaidlaw]

The updated cameras e.g. from IIIc to IIIf often have inaccurate shutters. When Alan Starkie rebuilt my red blinds IIIc Stepper, with hew blinds, he was tearing his hair out, trying to get the shutter timing accurate. He chatted to other repairers and in the end asked me if the flash sync was an absolute requirement. I said it wasn't, as I have a IIf, IIIg and R&S Model 3, all with working sync plus my various M and R cameras. As soon as Alan disconnected the flash sync, he was able to get the timing perfect. He felt the drag on the shutter mechanism, which was never designed to trigger flash sync, especially the variable delay version of the IIIf, was responsible for the inaccurate shutter timing. 

Wilson

[pgk]

On 12/31/2021 at 9:55 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

Looking further, I can see three coming up at auction in the next month (NOT ebay). The trouble with these, and with some of those from dealers, is that they would be difficult to inspect physically, and I would assume that any would require a CLA.

I would say that you are absolutely right to assume that many auction bought cameras may need a CLA. If you are lucky you might get one cheap enough to make this viable but reputable dealers don't seem to charge much more for a properly described (and sometimes CLA'd) camera than auction fever can take the price of a relatively unknown auction camera. Personally I'd keep an eye on those dealers who have a good reputation and no doubt a decent copy will eventually appear from one of them.

[jerzy]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb willeica:

Due to issues with silvering on mirrors this can be difficult to fix.

William, this may be easily fixed. I purchase halfmirrors from Japan, they are multicoated and provide even better contrast than original Leica had at that time. This is for LTM, another story are Ms, where silvered surface is within the cemented prism, this is complicated and costly.

[frame-it]

Kanto Camera >

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[jerzy]

back to initial topic - many later IIIc and IIIf have problem with curtains which became dry, stiff and they get pinholes.  When purchasing IIIf be prepared that as well this camera may suffer it. Of course it may be repaired, similarly like faint rangefinder, see above. Otherwise, if any optical element of rangefinder is broken you will need a donor camera, although some reputable repair persons may have still old/new stock of original spare parts.

[willeica]

1 hour ago, jerzy said:

William, this may be easily fixed. I purchase halfmirrors from Japan, they are multicoated and provide even better contrast than original Leica had at that time. This is for LTM, another story are Ms, where silvered surface is within the cemented prism, this is complicated and costly.

Thanks Jerzy. My CLA man here in Dublin bought some of these mirrors. In the case of my late father's Super Baldina, he had to cut the mirror into a tiny piece in order to fit inside the little Balda

1 hour ago, jerzy said:

back to initial topic - many later IIIc and IIIf have problem with curtains which became dry, stiff and they get pinholes.  When purchasing IIIf be prepared that as well this camera may suffer it. Of course it may be repaired, similarly like faint rangefinder, see above.

Small pinholes can be fixed with black Deco Textil material paint or something similar, which is what my CLA guy does sometimes. Jerzy, do you always replace the complete shutter cloth for any pinholes?

William 

[jerzy]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb willeica:

do you always replace the complete shutter cloth for any pinholes?

this depeneds - if the pinhole is result of sun burning a hole through uncovered lens (usually this is a single hole) than one may try to glue it like described. But more often you see something like this - rubber is dry, cracks. Then you have no other choice, even if you cover existing holes with glue in a short time the rubber will fall off in other places. In cases like this I replace always both curtains, even if ther second does not have any hole yet.

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[willeica]

1 hour ago, jerzy said:

this depeneds - if the pinhole is result of sun burning a hole through uncovered lens (usually this is a single hole) than one may try to glue it like described. But more often you see something like this - rubber is dry, cracks. Then you have no other choice, even if you cover existing holes with glue in a short time the rubber will fall off in other places. In cases like this I replace always both curtains, even if ther second does not have any hole yet.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks Jerzy, that is more or less the same as the practice of the CLA guy here in Dublin. The Deco Textil paint coats the small holes and should not wear off under normal use, but if the material is damaged, replacement is the only cure. 

At least with a Leica you can repair the shutters. My repair man has a Zeiss Ikon Super Nettel camera belonging to me for quite some time as he looks for silk threads to operate the metal blinds. It has put me off going near Contax cameras at all.

William 

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[Ouroboros]

After years of idly toying with the idea of buying a Barnack, a iiif from my birth year (1954) complete with a 50mm elmar f3.5 and Fison hood is finally on it's way to me.  It the Dealer's description is accurate (I've dealt with him before with no issues, so I expect the camera and lens to be as described), I should be using it by the end of this week or early next week.