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Questionable Leica (M-Lens) Quality Control.


Alan Zheng

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Just want to share my experience within the last couple of years of buying brand new leica lenses, and the poor workmanship that came with them. 

I bought my lenses from a few different online / local Leica dealers, I won't mention their names because I don't know if they want to be mentioned or not, but the service they've provided were exceptional. Anyway, here it goes.

In late 2020, I decided to purchase a brand new copy of the mighty 28mm Summilux ASPH, and it was such an incredible lens to shoot with. But what I also noticed is a paint chip on the lens. It was not acceptable for a new product to have such defect, let alone an $8000 lens. So I exchanged it for another, only to find a different issue on the lens, coating scartches. I tried to convince myself to live with it because the store doesn't have so many of these expensive lenses in stock, I had to wait a long time for the second one. But after sleeping on the issue, I couldn't justify spending that amount of money on a brand new lens that came with coating scratches, I took it back to the store. And the sales person was apologetic and promptly ordered another in for me. And I settled with the last one because it had no coating scratch, but it focuses past infinity lol(the other ones didn't have this issue), I didn't care about that because I mainly use it for close to mid distance, I considered myself lucky by then.

Soon after that I bought another 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE(I had one before but sold it, and soon regretted my decision),  there's a big piece of dust in the middle of the lens, and again with some coating scratches. But this was a more popular lens, so it wasn't too difficult to find a "decent" copy without scratches, I only exchanged once.

At this point, I really started to believe getting a decent copy of Leica lens is not an easy task, and I wanted to give up on the brand all together.

So I started buying like new used copies on Ebay, and I got the 35mm Summicron asph I, no coating scratch, no dings, spot on focus at infinity. Produced in 2015.

A few days ago I decided to purchase a brand new 50mm Summilux ASPH, and upon opening the box, I knew that the situation is not getting any better, smears, smudges, and what seems like the familiar coating scratches(could be smears, didn't try to clean them) on both front and rear element. Returned, and got lens

That's all I wanted to share here, and my goal is not to bash Leica or promote some kind of hate, and I genuinely hope that I had the worst luck, and got all these lemons. Because I love Leica M cameras and lenses, they are exceptionally designed, optically and mechanically. However, it has appeared to me that the execution of lens assembly at Leica is really careless to say the least. And I've never had any of these issues with my Voigtlander lenses, which often cost way less than its Leica counterpart. If anyone had a similar experience as I had, please share it, I want to hear your story and hopefully it could bring to Leica's attention.

 

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Allen, there are plenty of quality issues if you spent few hours browsing around the internet.  I bought the M system (2 bodies 3 lenses) brand new from dealers and had sensor issues, loose lenses  & serious service issues.  I also posted a discussion about possibly sold as new refurbished products but I think it got removed.  There are few groups of people here (and out there) and some worship the brand blindly, some just hated it and gone, some love and hate such as myself.  You will get mixed comments and back to zero after all.  

By the way the coating seems to be cleaning fluid marks.  Have you try cleaning them?  The infinity issue may caused by the body but either way it’s adjustable.

Edited by jaeger
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Either you have incredible bad luck or your dealer is selling other people’s rejects. What you described has never happened to me nor anyone I know and I own/owned *many* Leica lenses most of them purchased new. 

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I recently compared two copies of Lux 50ASPH the old one from 2012 and the new one from 2020. The lens coating is different: the recent one has weak magenta, the old one is green/magenta and it's definitely more rich.

Outcome images are different in sharpness and contrast. The old one is better to my eye.

Just my observation.

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1 hour ago, Alan Zheng said:

but it focuses past infinity

Hi Alan,

Focussing past infinity isn't a fault (assuming you mean that when the focus ring is fully rotated the focus mark doesn't line up with the infinity mark?) it's designed to compensate for expansion and contraction of metal parts owing to temperature changes.

Sorry to hear about the other problems.

Pete.

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1 hour ago, rtai said:

Either you have incredible bad luck or your dealer is selling other people’s rejects. What you described has never happened to me nor anyone I know and I own/owned *many* Leica lenses most of them purchased new. 

@Alan Zheng I have bought several new M lenses over the years and have never had even one problem such as you describe.  As @jdlaing observed, I would suspect that your 50mm Summilux is a demo or open box lens. 

If it was sold to you as a demo or open box with a corresponding discount, that is one thing - but it sounds as if you were told it was a new in box lens in mint condition, which it clearly is not.

Given the prices of new M cameras and lenses, it is incumbent upon Leica and the dealer to see to it that they are flawless when they come out of the box; that is not an unreasonable expectation.  Leica owners do not pay megadollar prices for "good enough - for somebody else." 

 

Edited by Herr Barnack
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When I buy a new Leica lens the box is inside an outer unmarked box which is sealed. The outer box should has the same bar code as the box. Once I pay for the lens the dealer unseals the box and shows me the lens for inspection. It’s been this way for 12 years or so?  Did your purchases arrive this way? 

Edited by rtai
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I hate to hear these kinds of stories.  We spend a lot of money on these things and expect a quality product without defects.  In this case it sounds more like dealer issues rather than poor quality control by Leica, but I'm sure they've let a few stinkers slip through.  It happens. 

Personally I've not had any issues with the three Leica lenses I purchased this year and all were from Leica dealers.  I have, however, had issues with other brands and it's frustrating when they keep jerking you around.  I have a major issue going with Hasselblad right now over a repair and may have to seek some kind of legal recourse, something a customer should never have to do when dealing with a (supposedly) reputable company.  

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2 hours ago, farnz said:

Hi Alan,

Focussing past infinity isn't a fault (assuming you mean that when the focus ring is fully rotated the focus mark doesn't line up with the infinity mark?) it's designed to compensate for expansion and contraction of metal parts owing to temperature changes.

Sorry to hear about the other problems.

Pete.

Hi Pete,

 

I meant when infinity markings line up, the plane of focus of the lens is beyond infinity. I’ve had a few lenses like this from Leica, it happens when they calibrate their lenses at minimum focus distance instead of at infinity. But the fact that this is even a variable is intriguing to me.

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3 hours ago, jaeger said:

Allen, there are plenty of quality issues if you spent few hours browsing around the internet.  I bought the M system (2 bodies 3 lenses) brand new from dealers and had sensor issues, loose lenses  & serious service issues.  I also posted a discussion about possibly sold as new refurbished products but I think it got removed.  There are few groups of people here (and out there) and some worship the brand blindly, some just hated it and gone, some love and hate such as myself.  You will get mixed comments and back to zero after all.  

By the way the coating seems to be cleaning fluid marks.  Have you try cleaning them?  The infinity issue may caused by the body but either way it’s adjustable.

Sorry to hear your bad experience, I think I find myself in a similar situation as you, I love it, and disappointed, but I can’t find an alternative to Leica. And no I have not tried to clean them, tbh, even if they are indeed cleaning marks, I would still be pretty disappointed to receive a brand new product in this state.

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2 hours ago, rtai said:

When I buy a new Leica lens the box is inside an outer unmarked box which is sealed. The outer box should has the same bar code as the box. Once I pay for the lens the dealer unseals the box and shows me the lens for inspection. It’s been this way for 12 years or so?  Did your purchases arrive this way? 

Yes, it arrived in the typical grey cardboard box sealed with white round stickers, and matching bar code.

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2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

@Alan Zheng I have bought several new M lenses over the years and have never had even one problem such as you describe.  As @jdlaing observed, I would suspect that your 50mm Summilux is a demo or open box lens. 

If it was sold to you as a demo or open box with a corresponding discount, that is one thing - but it sounds as if you were told it was a new in box lens in mint condition, which it clearly is not.

Given the prices of new M cameras and lenses, it is incumbent upon Leica and the dealer to see to it that they are flawless when they come out of the box; that is not an unreasonable expectation.  Leica owners do not pay megadollar prices for "good enough - for somebody else." 

 

I’m actually really happy to hear that not many of you are experiencing what I have, maybe I was just very unlucky,I even went to another dealer just to make sure that I’m not being scammed by my AD, but the rest is written in my post, the same old coating scratches. They don’t look like demos, as the exterior of the lens definitely looks brand new, maybe Leica refurbished? Not sure if that’s a thing.

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You're not alone, I've had issues in the past:

75mm Summicron M bought brand new, sealed box from a Leica dealer, the retaining ring holding the lens hood in place was completely loose & hood kept coming off. They told me to send it to Germany. Too much hassle with customs in & out of South Africa & Germany, so I fixed it myself. Unacceptable.

35mm Summarit M also new as above, from Leica Mayfair in London, focus ring was sloppy & felt completely loose. As I was still in London, returned the lens for another. 

 

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5 hours ago, Alan Zheng said:

Hi Pete,

 

I meant when infinity markings line up, the plane of focus of the lens is beyond infinity. I’ve had a few lenses like this from Leica, it happens when they calibrate their lenses at minimum focus distance instead of at infinity. But the fact that this is even a variable is intriguing to me.

Beyond infinity focussing is usual/necessary in the case of lenses with a long focal length used with Visoflex/LCD. But for 35mm or 50mm on a rangefinder, I doubt this. I think the rangefinder has to be adjusted then. In the case of a film camera there are three parameters, that are correlated: the scale, the rangefinder and the picture.

Another point is, where to buy a new lens. Like Lensrentals, the Wetzlar-Onlineshop checks every returned item (I think). But what would a dealer do, he has paid for the lens. A CLA he would have to pay (money and time) for. Is his profit margin big enough?

Edited by jankap
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9 hours ago, Alan Zheng said:

familiar coating scratches(could be smears, didn't try to clean them) on both front and rear element. 

 

 

 

 

I think that's your problem right there. I don't know how you solve it if you don't have the things to clean a lens but maybe try the Holga brand where dust and smears don't matter so much.

Edited by 250swb
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