M10D or M10M?!

[Yellow_78]

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Hi all,

I am presented with a big dilemma. For the longest time I've wanted to own a digital M without an LCD. The MD262 was very difficult to find a couple years ago on the 2nd hand market. I couldn't source one anywhere no matter where I looked. So my craving for the camera wore thin.

Then more recently, I've started to entertain the idea of shooting bnw on a dedicated body like the M246. Always loved bnw, just scared to pull the trigger because of the $$$!

Now the problem.... all of a sudden I have the opportunity to purchase both a M10D or/and an M10M. Obviously I'm not made of money so can't have both! So help me decide because im having alot of trouble!

I know what they both do. I know the specs. I just can't make a decision because im afraid I'll miss out on the other and feel I made the wrong decision.

Do you guys think one or the other will hold more value in the next couple years? For those that own either could you please share your thoughts, thanks guys!

 

 

 

[IkarusJohn]

I have the original, M9, Monochrom and the M10-D.

It’s a hard choice, M10-M or M10-D.  My feeling is that the M10-D is all about the haptics - it’s based on the M10-P (rather than the original M10), and it’s a lovely colour digital camera.  I really enjoy mine, but it is a colour digital camera.  If you like colour, then that is the reason to get one.

For me, photography is not about capturing reality, but a version of it - your version.  I guess that’s why I remain wedded to black and white.  You’re removing the distraction of colour, and providing a different view.  The M10-M is Leica’s latest sensor, and without the colour filter array and demosaicing and all the other stuff that goes with a colour digital photo, there is something fresh and honest about the Monochrom images.

I’m not sure that either is an “investment”, but their rarity has appeal.  If it were me, I’d go for the M10-M because those are the images I love.

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[a.noctilux]

Flip a coin ?

 

Or better yet use two coins or pieces of paper, one marked M10-D the other M10-M,

put them in a box (light tight), take one paper, read out loud, then choose the other one M 😉.

[pippy]

19 minutes ago, Yellow_78 said:

...I have the opportunity to purchase both a M10D or/and an M10M.......help me decide...

You haven't told us one vital piece of information which is if you own any other Digi-M bodies. If you don't and this will be your only Digi-M camera then it is really very simple. Do you EVER wish to shoot in colour?

If you already have other Digi-M bodies then, obviously, things are different. We need to know more about your individual situation to offer sensible advice.

Philip.

Edited December 23, 2021 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

It was a joke of course,

I have (built over time) some luck to own more different M than I need.

Everyday that I use my M-D, Monochrom MM1 or MM2 plus other choices.

I think the first of my choice is b&w or colour, then with which lens for the project I have in mind.

Each choice becomes easy, having choice is something to build with time (and money).

 

Remember also that too many choices kill the 'right choice'.

( in french... 'trop de choix tue le choix' )

@Yellow_78

In the end, if I had your choice I'd take the M10-M to begin with then maybe later (or not) color sensor M10/11/12 ?

Edited December 23, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Yellow_78]

45 minutes ago, pippy said:

You haven't told us one vital piece of information which is if you own any other Digi-M bodies. If you don't and this will be your only Digi-M camera then it is really very simple. Do you EVER wish to shoot in colour?

If you already have other Digi-M bodies then, obviously, things are different. We need to know more about your individual situation to offer sensible advice.

Philip.

Thank you all for the responses so far 🙏😊

Currently I own no digital M body. I've previously owned an MP240 and the original M10.. which I loved. The M bodies I have now are film ones an M-A and an M2.. and lastly I have an SL2-S for my digital needs. 

I think what I said earlier about 'which will hold more value' came out the wrong way! What I was meant to ask was, what do you guys think will be more sought after in future, and so harder to find? Maybe I should choose the harder to get one first? So if I choose to switch later there is a better chance of finding the other on the 2nd hand market?

Haha decisions too hard 😭🤣

[Yellow_78]

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8 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

It was a joke of course,

I have (built over time) some luck to own more different M than I need.

Everyday that I use my M-D, Monochrom MM1 or MM2 plus other choices.

I think the first of my choice is b&w or colour, then with which lens for the project I have in mind.

Each choice becomes easy, having choice is something to build with time (and money).

 

Remember also that too many choices kill the 'right choice'.

( in french... 'trop de choix tue le choix' )

@Yellow_78

In the end, if I had your choice I'd take the M10-M to begin with then maybe later (or not) color sensor M10/11/12 ?

Haha I know you were joking all good 🤣😂

Thanks for your advice! I'll definately consider the monochrom.. something different, but man the m10D just looks like so much fun haha. Im keen to see in real life these monochrom files 🤔 maybe that will convince me!

[a.noctilux]

No not hard decision.

May I think that you want the two but can not pay for them now.

Easy way is to make one choice NOW, then the other choice will come later or never.

[Stevejack]

1 minute ago, Yellow_78 said:

Haha I know you were joking all good 🤣😂

Thanks for your advice! I'll definately consider the monochrom.. something different, but man the m10D just looks like so much fun haha. Im keen to see in real life these monochrom files 🤔 maybe that will convince me!

I think there are some sites where you can download raw samples. If you can't find them, give me a shout and I'll send you a dropbox link with some M10M raws. They are certainly beautiful files, and punch well above their 40mp weight. 

[pippy]

37 minutes ago, Yellow_78 said:

...What I was meant to ask was, what do you guys think will be more sought after in future, and so harder to find?

That is a very different question to answer.

I might be wrong but you seem to be more interested in any potential increase in value in which case I would say 'Buy the M10-D' but "Caveat Venditior" applies...

P.

EDIT : If you are really after both in the long term then I'd still say still buy the MD. Screen-less variants are fewer to be found and those that have them tend to keep them. FWIW I have an M-D Typ-262 and an M Monochrom and can't ever see myself selling either.

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

I have to confess almost the same hard-decision some months ago.

Having use for many years the choice of M-D (262) and M246 Monochrom, I wanted M10-MD (screenless-monochrom).

As this M10 MD never come in the market, I stick to what I have and make my mind on 24Mpix is plenty enough for me, then again staying happy user of M-D + M246 + XX.

@Yellow_78

So I suggest another decision as older/cheaper alternative 'M246+M-D', second hand why not.

Edited December 24, 2021 by a.noctilux

[AllNoAll]

I can only speak to what I would do, but I don't envy your decision! My first M was, and is, an M2. I pretty much only shoot B&W film in it, so in essence it is a B&W camera. I then purchased an M246, as I was pretty dedicated to B&W at that point. I absolutely love the files I get out of the M246. For a camera from 2015 the results are stellar! So lately I have been missing shots as they were color images, and I no longer owned a color camera (kind of true, kind of not. I do have a Pentax 6x7 loaded with Portra 400 right-now). I decided to take a leap of $, and I just got an M10 for a pretty reasonable price from Leica Store Miami. It's great! Much nicer viewfinder, and close to as good in low-light as the M246; the rest I can work with or around.

I know wordy, but I thought a little history would add context to my thoughts on this. If I had purchased the M10 prior to the M246, my guess would be that I would not have gotten the M246 nearly as quickly. I just think for the first body I probably should have gone color, and sacrificed some of image quality for my B&W images. I have also dreamed of an M-D or M10-D to be my primary camera, as my love/history/passion really comes from the film experience. I would go with the M10-D here. I also feel that the M10-D will hold it's value a lot longer than an M10-M. You almost never seen an M10-D on the market, but you see M10-M bodies for sale used all the time; that says something.

[Yellow_78]

6 hours ago, Stevejack said:

I think there are some sites where you can download raw samples. If you can't find them, give me a shout and I'll send you a dropbox link with some M10M raws. They are certainly beautiful files, and punch well above their 40mp weight. 

Thanks for letting me know! Will definately find some RAWs to have a look at and thanks for offering! I'll DM you if I have no luck finding cheers mate!

[Yellow_78]

6 hours ago, pippy said:

That is a very different question to answer.

I might be wrong but you seem to be more interested in any potential increase in value in which case I would say 'Buy the M10-D' but "Caveat Venditior" applies...

P.

EDIT : If you are really after both in the long term then I'd still say still buy the MD. Screen-less variants are fewer to be found and those that have them tend to keep them. FWIW I have an M-D Typ-262 and an M Monochrom and can't ever see myself selling either.

 

Hi! Thanks for your response 👍

I'm not really after the long term increase or keeping of the 'value', I'm more concerned with what would be harder to find later on the 2nd hand market. Your response was spot on in answering this! I think your right that finding an M10D later would be harder than finding a monochrom and so this is something I will consider.

I go to see them both in the coming weeks and so we will see what I end up with!

 

[Yellow_78]

5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

I have to confess almost the same hard-decision some months ago.

Having use for many years the choice of M-D (262) and M246 Monochrom, I wanted M10-MD (screenless-monochrom).

As this M10 MD never come in the market, I stick to what I have and make my mind on 24Mpix is plenty enough for me, then again staying happy user of M-D + M246 + XX.

@Yellow_78

So I suggest another decision as older/cheaper alternative 'M246+M-D', second hand why not.

Yes this is also an option! Actually I would prefer it to save some coin.The problem is finding these locally in Sydney is extremely rare haha!

[Yellow_78]

3 hours ago, AllNoAll said:

I can only speak to what I would do, but I don't envy your decision! My first M was, and is, an M2. I pretty much only shoot B&W film in it, so in essence it is a B&W camera. I then purchased an M246, as I was pretty dedicated to B&W at that point. I absolutely love the files I get out of the M246. For a camera from 2015 the results are stellar! So lately I have been missing shots as they were color images, and I no longer owned a color camera (kind of true, kind of not. I do have a Pentax 6x7 loaded with Portra 400 right-now). I decided to take a leap of $, and I just got an M10 for a pretty reasonable price from Leica Store Miami. It's great! Much nicer viewfinder, and close to as good in low-light as the M246; the rest I can work with or around.

I know wordy, but I thought a little history would add context to my thoughts on this. If I had purchased the M10 prior to the M246, my guess would be that I would not have gotten the M246 nearly as quickly. I just think for the first body I probably should have gone color, and sacrificed some of image quality for my B&W images. I have also dreamed of an M-D or M10-D to be my primary camera, as my love/history/passion really comes from the film experience. I would go with the M10-D here. I also feel that the M10-D will hold it's value a lot longer than an M10-M. You almost never seen an M10-D on the market, but you see M10-M bodies for sale used all the time; that says something.

M2 such a beautiful beast 😊. Thank you for your response! Good to hear your thought process hehe. Yep, I've owned the m10 previously and can say its an amazing camera. Loved it. Only sold it to try the SL system which I absolutely adore, but of course shoot it for different purposes.

The screenless M camera, just like you was my dream camera! I feel though a monochrom would feel like an entirely different camera and maybe, just maybe might stimulate more creativity with my photography.  Anyways, will update when I see both in the flesh!

[poli]

My dream setup was the m10-d with an m10m. I already own the m10-d. Was about to buy an m10m, but decided for a film camera in which I mostly put B&W film. I just don’t like the lcd screen… still hoping for an m10md….

If I were in your shoes I would opt for the m10-d. It is a very versatile camera and feels lovely. And also no slouch in b&w. I believe the lack of rear screen could also boost your creativity. 
 

good luck with your choice 🙂

[pippy]

17 minutes ago, poli said:

...I believe the lack of rear screen could also boost your creativity...

I wholeheartedly agree.

Philip.

[Alan Mead]

I am new to Leica. I bought an M10M 9 months ago and love it. Learning to "see" images that are painted in light and shadow and contrast rather than defined by color is fun and quite a challenge. Beyond color or monochrome, though, I simply enjoy using the Leica M10M for the "feel" in my hands, the optical rangefinder, the simplicity and precision of the Leica camera. Having choices is wonderful! 

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[insideline]

9 hours ago, Yellow_78 said:

M2 such a beautiful beast 😊. Thank you for your response! Good to hear your thought process hehe. Yep, I've owned the m10 previously and can say its an amazing camera. Loved it. Only sold it to try the SL system which I absolutely adore, but of course shoot it for different purposes.

The screenless M camera, just like you was my dream camera! I feel though a monochrom would feel like an entirely different camera and maybe, just maybe might stimulate more creativity with my photography.  Anyways, will update when I see both in the flesh!

If you want to consider the quality of your future photographs then M10M without any hesitation as what it can produce in "any" light and with  incredibly high ISO's astounding image quality which could mean the difference for you capturing a greater range of wonderful photographs, whereas the M10D is still the 24MP sensor along with the color array. Plus I would think there will be a reasonably good chance Leica will make a run of M11D cameras. Also digital cameras do nothing but depreciate so I am not sure any of them with be especially collector bodies, lenses on the other hand are a different story. 

The M10M is an incredible camera, plus you have your SL2S for great color work with any M lenses you own, so I have to ask since you do have the Sl2S why "wouldn't" you choose the M10M?

Good luck with your decision.