TT artisans and 7 artisans ,the best leica lenses in the world.

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So i now have the TT artisan 50mm f0.95 and the 7 artisan 75mm f1.25 lenses from the rival chinese companies.

After initial frustration with calibration i now have it worked out and unless your a film user its easy.

The TT artisans 50mm is a modern aspherical lens with a different optical design to the modern karbe lens,there are many reviews and a brilliant chinese language video with a beautiful model comparing images between the leica original and the visual copy.

Its very clear that the leica lens is sharper wide open and has better contrast but the images from the TT lens are however quite stunning.

The  7 artisans 75mm f1.25 has the same focal length and speed of the leica 75mm noctilux but is based on a very old lens design and in no way competes with the leica on a technical level.

Wide open it reminds me of the voigtlander 40mm f1.4 nokton but in telephoto terms with a central sharp area surrounded by soft  glow  which i find quite wonderful.stopped down the lens performs well in a conventional way.

Both lenses are very well made and could easily be leica lenses in terms of the metal/glass and build quality and both lenses are a joy to use.

The thread title is tongue and cheek but these companies are going to sell a vast number of lenses to various mirrorless customers in the years to come in my view.

[mikemgb]

I have the 7Artisans 50mm f1.1 that I use regularly on my M2, while it isn’t as sharp as my 50mm Summicron it’s still an amazing lens for the price.

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[jdlaing]

They can be the best TT and 7artisans lenses in the world but not the best Leica lenses in the world because they are not made by a Leica.

[Sailronin]

I have the 7Artisans 75mm f1.25 and have been pleasantly surprised at the images produced by that lens.  I thought it would be so soft as to un-useable but actually it's not bad stopped down.

 

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Edited December 19, 2021 by Sailronin

[Guest]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:40 AM, jdlaing said:

They can be the best TT and 7artisans lenses in the world but not the best Leica lenses in the world because they are not made by a Leica.

Nobody would notice the difference except in their wallet.

[jdlaing]

54 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Nobody would notice the difference except in their wallet.

Oh yes they would when a warranty question or repair came up.

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11 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Oh yes they would when a warranty question or repair came up.

I am a great fan of the leica noctilux lenses but cannot afford them so i have my mini noctilux created by TT artisans which gives me a little bit of that unobtainable magic of a classic lens and the artistic options it provides.

There are lots of youtube videos especially chinese and asian ones that clearly show the leica lens is slightly sharper with a little bit more contrast than the TT artisans version [different optical design] .

It is a stunning lens though in my view and god only knows how good their second generation of lenses will be.

[cboy]

I only hope in the future their standard QC is higher than what it is today. IMO id expect if one spends a several of hundred of ones hard earn cash for a manual lens (let alone any MIC product) itd be properly calibrated right out of the box rather than 'user calibrated'. Its like passing the buck to consumers and saying it up to the consumer to make it work so the liability isn't on us. Doesnt sound right to me...

Sure they says its to cut (corners) production cost which are then passed as consumer saving, but in the end of the day quality and reputation go hand in hand. If those companies want to be considered higher tier brand like voigtlander then QC needs to improve. 

All i can say there will be alot of these lenses in the used market if they continue to produce this way. Lol

 

 

[erniethemilk]

@steve 1959 What’s your experience of the 7 artisan 75mm f1.25 lens at mid apertures such as f4-f11. I’d like to pick up a longer lens for woodland work to see if it’s a focal length I like but for testing the focal length out I don’t want to commit to a large(ish) budget. 

[Simone_DF]

5 hours ago, jdlaing said:

Oh yes they would when a warranty question or repair came up.

That's a moot argument. For the price you pay, should your copy need repair, you can just buy another one. The TTArtisan is 600$, the Noctilux is 12000$, you can buy 20x TTArtisans before reaching parity.

[Al Brown]

Here is what Peter Karbe thinks of the "Chinese" Noctilux (at 1:55:11).

 

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, cboy said:

I only hope in the future their standard QC is higher than what it is today. IMO id expect if one spends a several of hundred of ones hard earn cash for a manual lens (let alone any MIC product) itd be properly calibrated right out of the box rather than 'user calibrated'. Its like passing the buck to consumers and saying it up to the consumer to make it work so the liability isn't on us. Doesnt sound right to me...

Sure they says its to cut (corners) production cost which are then passed as consumer saving, but in the end of the day quality and reputation go hand in hand. If those companies want to be considered higher tier brand like voigtlander then QC needs to improve. 

All i can say there will be alot of these lenses in the used market if they continue to produce this way. Lol

Do you realize that TTArtisan, 7Artisan and the rest use the M mount only because it's easy to adapt it to all other mirrorless mounts? Release a lens in M mount, sell it to Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji and yes, even Leica users. But only Leica M users need to calibrate the lens. For everybody using a EVF, there's no calibration to be done, and no visible difference in quality control compared to other brands. That's why they don't give a crap about calibrating their lenses for M users, it's just an afterthought for them.

[Al Brown]

The only real problem of TTArtisan, 7Artisans & Mitakon is (just like Samyang, Rokinon, SLRMagic et. al.) the internal build quality. Most users will not be affected by it but these lenses are not really built for tougher professional use - first hand experience of having two fall apart on me, one had its diaphragm collapse only to realize that it was held in place by plastic bolts. Ask any lens repair service (Like LensRentals) and they will attest.

 

[mmradman]

4 hours ago, cboy said:

I only hope in the future their standard QC is higher than what it is today. IMO id expect if one spends a several of hundred of ones hard earn cash for a manual lens (let alone any MIC product) itd be properly calibrated right out of the box rather than 'user calibrated'. Its like passing the buck to consumers and saying it up to the consumer to make it work so the liability isn't on us. Doesnt sound right to me...

Sure they says its to cut (corners) production cost which are then passed as consumer saving, but in the end of the day quality and reputation go hand in hand. If those companies want to be considered higher tier brand like voigtlander then QC needs to improve. 

All i can say there will be alot of these lenses in the used market if they continue to produce this way. Lol

 

 

Leica is no stranger to selling uncalibrated M lenses, may I add supplied with signed QC slip of paper in the box.  I guess it is more to satisfy the mystique of the Leica Quality & Price rather than real proof that the lens met company quality standards 😂. 

Also see post #12.

[jdlaing]

11 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

I am a great fan of the leica noctilux lenses but cannot afford them so i have my mini noctilux created by TT artisans which gives me a little bit of that unobtainable magic of a classic lens and the artistic options it provides.

There are lots of youtube videos especially chinese and asian ones that clearly show the leica lens is slightly sharper with a little bit more contrast than the TT artisans version [different optical design] .

It is a stunning lens though in my view and god only knows how good their second generation of lenses will be.

And there is nothing wrong with owning one. I have several TTArtisans and 7artisans lenses. You just can’t compare it to a Leica lens. Yet.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Do you realize that TTArtisan, 7Artisan and the rest use the M mount only because it's easy to adapt it to all other mirrorless mounts? Release a lens in M mount, sell it to Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji and yes, even Leica users. But only Leica M users need to calibrate the lens. For everybody using a EVF, there's no calibration to be done, and no visible difference in quality control compared to other brands. That's why they don't give a crap about calibrating their lenses for M users, it's just an afterthought for them.

You hit the nail right on the head there ,its easy to adapt to any mirrorless and the m mount has likely longevity.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jdlaing said:

And there is nothing wrong with owning one. I have several TTArtisans and 7artisans lenses. You just can’t compare it to a Leica lens. Yet.

I struggle with links from youtube but there are "compare" videos out there especially a couple of asian ones that clearly compare images at various apertures with a girl model who then goes through about 10 images with the host and giving her preferences.

The leica 0.95 is slightly sharper wide open and has more contrast but you have to look hard at what looks like about 50% enlargement.

[Simone_DF]

FYI Lomography recently released a 18mm f2.8 in M mount. Same concept as above applies: they also sell it in Sony, Canon, Nikon and Fuji mount. And by "sell it" I mean they'll sell you the M mount version + an adapter for you desired mount designed to appear flush with the lens

https://shop.lomography.com/en/lenses/atoll-17mm-ultra-wide-art-lens

[Guest]

Peter karbe didnt say anything bad about the TT f0.95 he simply questioned how they can produce it with enough care at such a price.

But cosina make fast lenses so he would have to ask the same of their lenses if asked.

The calibration situation is not a quality control issue because you are told from the outset that you will most likely have to calibrate the lens.

Once you have done this your ready to go.

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Hallo,

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[Guest]

9 hours ago, erniethemilk said:

@steve 1959 What’s your experience of the 7 artisan 75mm f1.25 lens at mid apertures such as f4-f11. I’d like to pick up a longer lens for woodland work to see if it’s a focal length I like but for testing the focal length out I don’t want to commit to a large(ish) budget. 

I have been out twice with my grand children in the woods but using the lens from f1.25 to f2.8 but i will get back to you as soon as i go out on my own and use it from f4 to f11 .

The lens has performed much better and is sharper at wide apertures than i was expecting so who knows what its like stopped down.

Both my chinese lenses are beautiful pieces of glass and metal and mechanically operate very smoothly.