Voigtlander 50mm f/1 VM

[LarsHP]

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27 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Ivo,

You are right that focussing range closer would not heart,

as it should with FLE elements may be better.

 

I think that the longer ramp may be necessary, so bigger/longer lens then.

Longer ramp? I am not familiar with that term in this context.

If you are talking about the focusing mechanism / the helicoid, then I think this sounds like a possible explanation regarding why the MFD is limited - in this case to 0.9 meter - considering their effort to keep the lens as short as it is. However, the 50mm Summilux Asph has FLE and reaches 0.7m, so I don't understand why an f/1 lens should be so limited in MFD.

As an end user, I do find it odd and a clear drawback that a 50mm lens is limited to 0.9 meter MFD. I even find a MFD of 0.7 meter to be too long, but this is of course relative and depend on use (and in my case, I would have liked semi macro distance if possible). Since I don't shoot an M camera, but a (sensor glass modified) Nikon Z6, the adapter will let me focus much closer - with the optical performance drop that often follows when going much closer, but sometimes the softness from spherical aberration is desirable (like the sample below shot with Nokton 50mm f/1.2 Asph wide open).

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[a.noctilux]

@LarsHP, you may try 50mm Summicron DR (SOMNI/11918), close focus to 48cm in Dual Range

very nice lens that I use since very long decades

one of many discussions here

 

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

So having the F1 for RF M lens under 1m focus is bonus of course, but only marketing for me ( I can do what Leica can not ).

For sure, but don't forget that many brands, including Voigtlander, release lenses in M mount to be used with other cameras too (Sony, Nikon etc), where focusing with an EFV makes focusing at f/1 and closer than 1m easy 

[Alexander-HH]

I would love to see a good picture of this mounted on a M10 😍 on the other hand this will probably make me want it even more 😬

Edited December 11, 2021 by Alexander-HH

[Ouroboros]

31 minutes ago, Alexander-HH said:

I would love to see a good picture of this mounted on a M10 😍 on the other hand this will probably make me want it even more 😬

Can't help you with the new 50mm f1 yet but you could always get the 50mm f1.5 Heliar Classic in the meantime! 😂

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[-ph-]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Alexander-HH:

I would love to see a good picture of this mounted on a M10 😍 on the other hand this will probably make me want it even more 😬

There is a short video about this lens, they show it on the M, though unfortunately not very close up:

 

[FrozenInTime]

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23 hours ago, LarsHP said:

 

Yes. I just saw it in that thread this morning. So why on earth didn't Cosina write it in the Japanese and English description? This is really odd. To be honest, I am a bit hesitant regarding a final conclusion whether it actually has floating lens element design, as long as Cosina doesn't say it themselves. The German description at https://www.voigtlaender.de/objektive/vm/50-mm-11-nokton/ is the only official page that claims it so far, but even the video on that very page doesn't mention FLE.

The Japanese news site dc watch impress says floating elements ; it would be interesting if anyone can find the text of the Cosina-Voigtlander press release.

https://dc-watch-impress-co-jp.translate.goog/docs/news/1373041.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

"The shortest shooting distance is 0.9m (same as the rangefinder interlocking range). By adopting a floating mechanism, stable image quality can be obtained from short distances to long distances."

[LarsHP]

8 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

The Japanese news site dc watch impress says floating elements ; it would be interesting if anyone can find the text of the Cosina-Voigtlander press release.

https://dc-watch-impress-co-jp.translate.goog/docs/news/1373041.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

"The shortest shooting distance is 0.9m (same as the rangefinder interlocking range). By adopting a floating mechanism, stable image quality can be obtained from short distances to long distances."

Right. And over at Fred Miranda's site, one of the members linked to an official (Japanese) Cosina Facebook account that confirms that this lens does have a floating lens element design. Another said the Australian distributor also confirmed it. In addition, we already have the German site and Steve at Camera Quest saying the same.

Now someone in the marketing department at Cosina needs to update the description in both English and Japanese. Not mentioning an important feature usually means it isn't there, so this should definitely be added.

[sutlore]

Very interesting lens, espicially its footprint. Weighting less than half a kilogram is a surprise.

Still not sure about image quality at wide open though. I would like to see sample images to make a decision lol

[Photon42]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:10 PM, Alexander-HH said:

I would love to see a good picture of this mounted on a M10 😍 on the other hand this will probably make me want it even more 😬

Think big 😂

[Photon42]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:47 PM, Ouroboros said:

Can't help you with the new 50mm f1 yet but you could always get the 50mm f1.5 Heliar Classic in the meantime! 😂

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And the Minimal focus distance is 50cm.

[Photon42]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:55 PM, LarsHP said:

Longer ramp? I am not familiar with that term in this context.

If you are talking about the focusing mechanism / the helicoid, then I think this sounds like a possible explanation regarding why the MFD is limited - in this case to 0.9 meter - considering their effort to keep the lens as short as it is. However, the 50mm Summilux Asph has FLE and reaches 0.7m, so I don't understand why an f/1 lens should be so limited in MFD.

As an end user, I do find it odd and a clear drawback that a 50mm lens is limited to 0.9 meter MFD. I even find a MFD of 0.7 meter to be too long, but this is of course relative and depend on use (and in my case, I would have liked semi macro distance if possible). Since I don't shoot an M camera, but a (sensor glass modified) Nikon Z6, the adapter will let me focus much closer - with the optical performance drop that often follows when going much closer, but sometimes the softness from spherical aberration is desirable (like the sample below shot with Nokton 50mm f/1.2 Asph wide open).

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You can buy a proper close focus M-Adapter for your Z from the very company. I have one and it works very well.

[LarsHP]

5 hours ago, Photon42 said:

You can buy a proper close focus M-Adapter for your Z from the very company. I have one and it works very well.

I have three. Two smart adapters with AF (Techart and Megadap) and one dumb with close focus helicoid (Gabale).

The reason why I am "whining" about the minimum focus distance is that (I expect) it tells us that at shorter distances, the performance will drop below a threshold that the engineers think is acceptable. To me, it is disappointing considering the floating lens element design.

[mike3996]

14 minutes ago, LarsHP said:

The reason why I am "whining" about the minimum focus distance is that (I expect) it tells us that at shorter distances, the performance will drop below a threshold that the engineers think is acceptable. To me, it is disappointing considering the floating lens element design.

Lens design is all about compromises. FLE helps but it's not a miracle maker. Besides, when designing a lens you pick the constraints and targets... do we want it to weight less than 500 g or does it have to hit the $2000 price point or if it has to focus down to 0.7m.

So far there's been precedent to let MFDs on ultrafast lenses go a little longer.

[-ph-]

I certainly would prefer a shorter lens and overall better image quality over a shorter focussing distance. So I am quite happy with their choice. If the image quality is up to it, I am quite likely to get this lens. I once shot the old 50/1 Noctilux and just liked that lens, unfortunately it is still quite more expensive as a used lens.

[pippy]

I do like the short physical length and this bit from the official spiel suggests not too much vignetting wide-open;

..."We have created a generous image circle that supports the full-frame format"...

Interesting lens for sure.

Philip.

[cboy]

If this lens is has a sharp out of focus falloff and 3dlike rendering as I expect it will be then all I'd need is to lap on a promist on this bad boy just to take off the edge and it'll be winner winner chicken dinner hahaha!

[Photon42]

On 12/14/2021 at 1:35 PM, LarsHP said:

I have three. Two smart adapters with AF (Techart and Megadap) and one dumb with close focus helicoid (Gabale).

The reason why I am "whining" about the minimum focus distance is that (I expect) it tells us that at shorter distances, the performance will drop below a threshold that the engineers think is acceptable. To me, it is disappointing considering the floating lens element design.

Yes, it sure will, if they did not opt for compensating measures - but closing the aperture by a stop or two should take care of that. Today with all the YT experts breathing down the necks of the idiot product designers, companies are careful what to release. Especially at a price point like that. I use the close focus adapter from Voigtländer with the old 1.1/50 Nokton with the Z7 sometimes, just to get this little bit closer. Honestly, in my aging eyes, the quality does not drop so much. That lens got for too much flak, btw.

[LarsHP]

7 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Yes, it sure will, if they did not opt for compensating measures - but closing the aperture by a stop or two should take care of that. Today with all the YT experts breathing down the necks of the idiot product designers, companies are careful what to release. Especially at a price point like that. I use the close focus adapter from Voigtländer with the old 1.1/50 Nokton with the Z7 sometimes, just to get this little bit closer. Honestly, in my aging eyes, the quality does not drop so much. That lens got for too much flak, btw.

Stopping down isn't an option to me. This chubby lens needs to be shot wide open. Otherwise, I could just keep my Nokton f/1.2 (which I really love, so I might actually do that anyway).

However, I have a (not so secret) spice, I can add to the sauce: my Tokina AT-X +0.4 achromatic diopter (a "close-up filter" consisting of two lens elements). It has 72mm thread, which means it may work well even wide open with the f/1 Nokton (which has a 62mm thread).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ouroboros]

On 12/11/2021 at 11:00 PM, -ph- said:

There is a short video about this lens, they show it on the M, though unfortunately not very close up:

 

That video reminds me of Fanny Cradock's cookery programme in the 1950's & 60's.  Must have been the same scriptwriter.

Anyhow, I can make room for this new Nokton 50mm f1.  The CV train is a runaway!