Topaz DENoise AI with M246 DNG files??

[mmradman]

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Hi,

I am currently playing with stand alone Trial version of Topaz DeNoise AI, v3.3.4 trial on MacMini 2018 (Intel) running Big Sur 11.6.1.

So far so good with DNG files from M9, M240 and SL, also NEF files form Nikon Z7.  Problem is Topaz does not open DNG files from M246.  OK with JPG it seems.  

Flagged the problem with Topaz Helpline, also sent mac.mini.spx file, obviously it is a long weekend ahead, fingers crossed.

 

Does someone can provide some explanation or suggestion what may be going wrong?

 

p.s. also posted in post Processing forum.

[Luke_Miller]

Just tried it on my PC.  Opening a Monochrom DNG produces "Unknown Error".  Opening via Lightroom works fine since Lightroom outputs the file as a tif.  So DeNoise appears to be incompatible with the Monochrom DNG files.  It will open DNGs from my M240.  I believe the files from the Monochrom are a Linear DNG which is a slightly different format from color Raw DNGs.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Luke_Miller

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[jaapv]

Monochrom files are linear DNG which is not recognized by Topaz. I would suggest running them through Adobe's DNG converter (simply drop them on the icon) Chances are that Topaz will open them then.  The reason is that linear DNG is a non-raw format (i.e. partially processed). 

[tommydom]

+1 for @jaapv's suggestion...

I ran into the same issue a while back and my interaction with Topaz on the subject is that it is unsupported out of the camera. I did ask at the time to see if they would include the format in a future release. The reply was polite, but non-committal at best.

Tommy.

[mmradman]

20 hours ago, jaapv said:

Monochrom files are linear DNG which is not recognized by Topaz. I would suggest running them through Adobe's DNG converter (simply drop them on the icon) Chances are that Topaz will open them then.  The reason is that linear DNG is a non-raw format (i.e. partially processed). 

Hi Jaap, as suggested converted M246 DNG file via Adobe RAW Convertor and got new DNG file. Unfortunately Topaz DeNoise AI treated it same as the original.

May try DXO Noise reduction software next..

With respect to colour RAW files noise reduction is truly spectacular, it seems all it takes is lowest noise removal setting combined with low sharpening  to produce noise free RAWs while preserving fine detail.  I would really go easy as some semblance of grain would be desirable rather than smooth "air-brushed" version.

[SrMi]

 

17 hours ago, mmradman said:

Hi Jaap, as suggested converted M246 DNG file via Adobe RAW Convertor and got new DNG file. Unfortunately Topaz DeNoise AI treated it same as the original.

May try DXO Noise reduction software next..

With respect to colour RAW files noise reduction is truly spectacular, it seems all it takes is lowest noise removal setting combined with low sharpening  to produce noise free RAWs while preserving fine detail.  I would really go easy as some semblance of grain would be desirable rather than smooth "air-brushed" version.

DxO does not work with Monochrom files neither. With M10M, I have to use Topaz as it supports TIFF as input.

[erudolph]

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FWIW, if I use the Edit in Photoshop command and move an M10M dng into Photoshop, I can then send the file to Topaz Denoise or Topaz Sharpen vis the Photoshop Filters menu.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, erudolph said:

FWIW, if I use the Edit in Photoshop command and move an M10M dng into Photoshop, I can then send the file to Topaz Denoise or Topaz Sharpen vis the Photoshop Filters menu.

No need to go via Photoshop. In Lightroom select Photo>Edit In>Topaz Denoise AI and Lightroom converts it to TIFF (as specified in dialog's Copy File Options) before sending it to Topaz tool.

[erudolph]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

No need to go via Photoshop. In Lightroom select Photo>Edit In>Topaz Denoise AI and Lightroom converts it to TIFF (as specified in dialog's Copy File Options) before sending it to Topaz tool.

Yes, that’s true, but going into Photoshop  does not create a Tiff initially.  In Photoshop the Topaz-processed image can be a layer in a PS composition.  A DeNoised layer can then be sent, e.g., to Topaz Sharpen.  Ultimately, the flattened file, if saved, will no longer be a DNG but likely a Tiff.  Still, it’s a workflow I like.

Edited December 7, 2021 by erudolph

[mmradman]

15 hours ago, SrMi said:

No need to go via Photoshop. In Lightroom select Photo>Edit In>Topaz Denoise AI and Lightroom converts it to TIFF (as specified in dialog's Copy File Options) before sending it to Topaz tool.

Thanks for the suggestion but I don’t use Lightroom and not going to. I do my own filing and don’t need dedicated programme to help me out.  ACR and PS is all need, I am hoping to adopt DeNoise but it is not a matter of life or death.  Half of my pictures are from M246, some in poor light. I already discovered that Topaz DENoise works OK with Jpg and colour RAW files.

For instance I could take any of my mono DNGs open in ACR and send to PS for processing, I could save it in PS in number of formats, JPG, Tiff, PSD, from there use the one that works in Topaz.

[Bikie John]

I have just had an email from Topaz Labs announcing DeNoise AI version 3.4. Among other things it says it supports more cameras, and going to the page for the list it includes all three of the Monochroms. I haven't been able to try it as my subscription has expired and I am mulling over whether to renew it. If you are still in the trial period I think you can probably download the upgrade and give it a go.

List of supported cameras, which is not on the Topaz website but linked from it:

https://www.libraw.org/supported-cameras-libraw-202110

John

[Bikie John]

I've just tried it - renewed the subscription, downloaded the update (version 3.4.1) and tried to open a file in the standalone version. It does think about opening the files from the original M Mono and M10 Mono (don't have any M246 files to try, sorry) but after thinking for a bit just comes back with "unknown error". I'm not sure whether this is the same message as before, but the end result is the same.

If I can summon up the enthusiasm I will raise it with Topaz since it now claims to support these cameras, but to be honest I can't help feeing that life is just too short to bother!

John

[jaapv]

The problem is not with Topaz, but by the raw converter which you are using opening the DNG in Greyscale by default  as it  is a linear DNG.  If you change the setting to for instance Adobe RGB, the problem will disappear. Alternately you could run the camera DNG file through Adobe's DNG converter before opening.

[Bikie John]

Sorry Jaap, I don't quite understand. What raw converter? Could you explain a little more please?

Using Topaz standalone there is no converter, it is just reading the file directly - which is what it says it wants to do for best results. The Topaz announcement says that it has direct support for many new cameras, it doesn't mention the Monochroms in the announcement but does in the list of supported cameras which is linked from the announcement page.

Announcement page: https://learn.topazlabs.com/denoise-ai-v3-4-native-apple-m1-support-improved-raw-file-handling-and-lots-of-performance-improvements/

It doesn't worry me a great deal as I generally don't drive it directly, I prefer to invoke it from Photoshop. This is a different process because Adobe Camera Raw has already rendered the raw data. But Topaz themselves say - understandably - that the best results are from opening the raw files directly, which gives it access to the full raw data. And it appears not to like it, despite what the announcement says.

John