Leica M10-R Black Paint as an Investment

[trequartista]

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Do you think a Leica M10-R Black Paint will at some point develop a good value? Let's say the camera was left unopened: Is that attractive to collectors? And how would the price develop if it were unboxed and used?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Gobert]

I suggest you ask this question on the Speculation Forum.

[wizard]

In my personal opinion, no digital camera whatsoever will be a good value from a collector's point of view. There are several reasons for that. First, digital cameras are usually not made in small quantities (even the M10R black paint is not). Second, digital technology evolves quickly, thus rendering older model obsolete sooner rather than later. Third, replacement parts may not be available for an extended period of time, unlike the old mechanical cameras which usually may be repaired even after decades.

[Jeff S]

If one becomes a famous and honored photographer, and the black paint has worn off after decades of use, then the camera might be worth considerably more, but less than if one is dead and not able to personally benefit. Otherwise, I can think of better investments.

Jeff

[pippy]

No.

Philip.

[Gobert]

3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

If one becomes a famous and honored photographer, and the black paint has worn off after decades of use, then the camera might be worth considerably more, but less than if one is dead and not able to personally benefit. Otherwise, I can think of better investments.

Jeff

Buy blood diamonds from South Africa.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Gobert

[happymac]

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb trequartista:

Do you think a Leica M10-R Black Paint will at some point develop a good value?

No!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Al Brown]

It is quite pointless to speculate this way. Nobody knew in 2017 the Leica M film cameras will explode in price... some are now almost twice the price, some even more. Even digital M cameras - M9 and M240 - are up significantly on the used market.
Only time will tell. I have one M10-R Black Paint and use it daily. Could not care less about its value later on.
If you want investment, get a black paint MP from 1956, some other Leica rarities and/or some specific special editions.

[pippy]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

...If you want investment, get a black paint MP from 1956...

Absolutely, Al! I couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately I just missed out on yet another one of those (#55) which was auctioned-off the other day. I was drying my hair and by the time I realised that the lot was 'live' for telephone bidding I was fractionally too late to advance the ultimate hammer-price of 1.2 million Euros. Ah, well; there's bound to be another along in a minute or so...

https://www.leitz-auction.com/auction/en/home

Philip.

Edited November 23, 2021 by pippy

[Lux50]

Definitely not.

[Steve Ash]

Zitat

 

The only way you can make an investment out of it is in making the camera a tool and the output of it into selling products.

 

[Al Brown]

7 hours ago, pippy said:

Unfortunately I just missed out on yet another one of those (#55) which was auctioned-off the other day. I was drying my hair and by the time I realised that the lot was 'live' for telephone bidding I was fractionally too late to advance the ultimate hammer-price of 1.2 million Euros. Ah, well; there's bound to be another along in a minute or so...

I am absolutely sure you will be able to find one at a reasonable price while not grooming or in the bathroom. There is hudreds of them out there 😄.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Al Brown

[pippy]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I am absolutely sure you will be able to find one at a reasonable price while not grooming or in the bathroom. There is hudreds of them out there 😄.

I can always Dream!............

As far as the number available AFAIK it might be anywhere between 139 and 150.

According to Rogliatti - a copy of whose book I picked up in 1983 - there was; "..an initial run...of eleven cameras marked MP1 to MP11.." before series production started properly. I don't have any info regarding the pre-production 11 but of the production run only the first 139 MPs (MP12 to MP150) were Black Paint. The majority (MP151 to MP450) were finished in Satin-Chrome.

As soon as I saw the photograph of the Black-Paint MP in his book I was absolutely smitten by how beautiful it was. I'm not sure the same snap was used in later volumes but in the one I have ("The First Fifty Years", 3rd printing, 1976) the camera used for the illustration is body MP115 complete with B-P Leicavit (of course!) and B-P 50mm f2 Rigid Summicron #1 587 582.

There is also a photo illustrating the Satin-Chrome version (MP392) but it has nowhere near the same aura of beauty IMO.

Incidentally; if any of our Historically Well-Informed ladies or gents could shed some light on the MP1 to MP11 cameras I'd be very interested to know more!

Philip.

[a.noctilux]

Talking about original MP,

strange story in this thread with strange history

MP-253

...

nice image from Wiki, MP1

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MP2

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Hallo,

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[pippy]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Talking about original MP,

strange story in this thread with strange history...

Thanks for the link, Arnaud; very intriguing! Well before my time here, though. Was there any continuation of the story or did it end there? Another thread was mentioned; did that take the story any further?

And at last! It gives me an idea as to what sort of engraving to have on my NOS M2 top-plate......

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Hallo Gast!
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......No; not really.

Philip.

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Hallo,

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[Al Brown]

4 hours ago, pippy said:

he majority (MP151 to MP450) were finished in Satin-Chrome.

Yes, all correct. When I said hundreds I meant all MPs from the short production era.
I have Rogliatti's 1925-1975 "First 50 years" Second Edition book, Lager's Volume 1 History (Cameras) which lists 6 large pages with images on the 1956/57 MP's and Laney's "Produkt und Sammlerbuch" which lists a slightly different number of MPs made on one page and a half. A pleasure to browse.
The MP must probably be the coolest M Leica ever made. So cool they resurrected it twice more - as a digital "designation" M-P and as an analog contemporary MP released in 2003 and still in production to this very day - even in amazing black paint.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Al Brown

[pippy]

7 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

...I have......Lager's Volume 1 History (Cameras) which lists 6 large pages with images on the 1956/57 MP's and Laney's "Produkt und Sammlerbuch" which lists a slightly different number of MPs made on one page and a half. A pleasure to browse. Probably the coolest M Leica ever made.

It would be interesting (for me at least) to know whether either Lager or Laney cast any light on numbers MP1 to MP11. And when you say Laney lists a slightly different serial number list I have certainly read one list of MP bodies which mentions series production started with MP13 and not MP12 as stated in the 'Fifty Years' book we both have.

I know that Gianni Rogliatti got at least as far as 'The First 70 Years' but don't know if there were any published subsequently. Anyone know more?

Philip.

[Al Brown]

5 minutes ago, pippy said:

Laney lists a slightly different serial number list

As far as I remember Shinichi Nakamura in his "Leica Collection" lists yet another total number.

[pippy]

You would have thought that these things would be well-documented by the factory! Perhaps someone like Bill ('derleicaman') or Lars might have had a look at the factory records? But are we straying slightly off-topic?

Then again; I suspect the OP has received as much help as it is possible to give for a camera which is still currently just another regular production item.

Philip.

[Robert Blanko]

Am 23.11.2021 um 12:36 schrieb trequartista:

Do you think a Leica M10-R Black Paint will at some point develop a good value? Let's say the camera was left unopened: Is that attractive to collectors? And how would the price develop if it were unboxed and used?

Well, store the camera in a sealed plastic bag, filled with nitrogen.

Then you just have to wait and after some time there will be enthusiasts drooling over a virgin M10-R Black Paint for brassing.  🤤