Is shooting film still worth it in 2022 ?

[michaelcole]

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I see a lot of posts on here about using the Leica BEOON for copy work.  Is it possible to scan 4x5" film and 4x6 prints with it or will it not get that tall?

Thanks,

Michael

[Studienkamera]

40 minutes ago, michaelcole said:

I see a lot of posts on here about using the Leica BEOON for copy work.  Is it possible to scan 4x5" film and 4x6 prints with it or will it not get that tall?

I can't think of a practical way of doing this with the BEOON. The baseplate has an opening of about 10.5x7cm (from memory), too small for this purpose. You could place a print on top of the baseplate, but then the lens will not be centered on top of the print. Also, there is certainly not enough extension to use a 50mm lens to copy a 4x5 sheet. You could use a wide angle lens but you would need to find one that performs well at 1:4.

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[michaelcole]

Thanks for the information!  That's just what I suspected.

[Steve Ricoh]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:48 AM, Wyck said:

Like others, I also use the Leitz BEOON to scan my negatives. I use the Negative Supply light source and their film holder.  The film holder makes it so easy to scan an uncut roll in approx 5 minutes. The light source made a big difference in the quality of my scans compared with a cheap panel from Amazon. I scan in the dark and mask off any unwanted light from the light panel. 
 

I use this with my M10M, 50 APO and Fotos apo. . I live near a secondhand darkroom supplies shop and borrowed several enlarger lenses to compare to my 50 APO and felt the 50 APO was better. I didn’t try any Leitz lenses, they were rodenstock and Schneider. 
 

I’ve owned a Hasselblad X5, Fuji frontier and recently a Noritsu scanner. The mini lab scanners are good for speed but as you know they crop the neg. The X5 was great but it suffered the FireWire failure and I got fed up with running a separate Mac for the old OS. I only shoot B&W so the M10M and the BEOON for me makes a very compact setup. 

Could I ask how you use the Negative Supply film holder with the Beoon? A picture of the set-up would be very helpful indeed. 
I’ve tried a number of ways using a Lomo DigitalLIZA underneath the Beoon, but it’s always a compromised balancing act. (Underneath because it’s the only way to focus using the range set by the helicoid of the Beoon stand.)
Thanks.

[idusidusi]

On 11/22/2021 at 6:16 PM, Herr Barnack said:

@Steven  Here are a couple of images made with a film MP, a 90/2 APO (the two monks) and a 50/1.4 Summilux pre-ASPH and Kodak Tri-X developed in D-76 (click on image for high res view).

I'm not so sure this visual fingerprint can be reproduced with a digital M to be 100% the same - perhaps close, but not 100%.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's JMHO. 

The prints that resulted from these negs were scanned and made by inkjet printer simply because my printer no longer maintains a wet darkroom.  Tri-X gives them a beautiful fingerprint that is reminiscent of charcoal and art paper. 

So my answer is yes - film is still worth the effort and cost in 2022, depending on the end result you want to achieve.  Unless it is for a specific project, I wouldn't shoot 50-100 rolls of film a week, though.  Developing that much film is a ton of work and I don't trust a lab to do it to the level of quality that I can do it at home.

 

 

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I am not sure we should expect to get 100% the same with digital as to film. Both have their limits and their advantages.

[hirohhhh]

On 11/22/2021 at 10:13 AM, logan2z said:

I don't necessarily shoot film for the 'look' of the final result, although that's a nice side benefit.  I shoot it because I was tired of sitting in front of a computer, endlessly staring at a screen and dicking around with post-processing software.  I'm also sick and tired of constantly having to charge batteries for every single thing I touch.  Film divorces me from computers, screens and software and lets me focus on photography.  I pick up my M-A or M4 and it's ready to shoot.  My camera isn't a computer with a lens bolted to the front.  No menus, settings, screens, etc.  Developing and darkroom printing my photos also gives me a much-needed break from computers and digital everything.  I find it soothing and satisfying to work with my hands to produce a print rather than endlessly tweaking an image in Lightroom or Photoshop and finally pressing a button to have it spit out of a printer.  There's little satisfaction in that for me personally.  And no, I'm not a Luddite, I'm a Software Engineer by trade.  But I have absolutely no desire to spend my free time like I do my professional time, chained to a computer.  Film sets me free!

Me too, but I found myself editing my film negatives in Lightroom more than digital files. Carrying more film rolls in my bag than batteries  So, I hear you, but it didn't work for me

[logan2z]

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6 hours ago, hirohhhh said:

I found myself editing my film negatives in Lightroom more than digital files.

Interesting.  When I was shooting digital I was spending far more time editing those files than the ones from my film scans.  My film scans usually only take a few tweaks to make them 'right' to my eye.  But whatever works best for you... 

[hirohhhh]

12 hours ago, logan2z said:

Interesting.  When I was shooting digital I was spending far more time editing those files than the ones from my film scans.  My film scans usually only take a few tweaks to make them 'right' to my eye.  But whatever works best for you... 

Well, I started my photography with digital and my 98% files are digital, and I use Photoshop almost 25 years and Lightroom a bit less, so it's a second nature to me, I can do it blindly, almost  Film is relatively new to me and I'm still struggling to nail the colors and balance them through the whole roll. B&W is much easier, but with color, I still need to spend more time do make it right. But, it's just my inexperience, I don't say it's harder. Probably not.

[malligator]

52 minutes ago, hirohhhh said:

Well, I started my photography with digital and my 98% files are digital, and I use Photoshop almost 25 years and Lightroom a bit less, so it's a second nature to me, I can do it blindly, almost  Film is relatively new to me and I'm still struggling to nail the colors and balance them through the whole roll. B&W is much easier, but with color, I still need to spend more time do make it right. But, it's just my inexperience, I don't say it's harder. Probably not.

Are you saying that you invert your color files yourself without the help of a plug-in like Negative Lab Pro? If so, yeah, I could see that taking more time to edit.

[LocalHero1953]

50 minutes ago, malligator said:

Are you saying that you invert your color files yourself without the help of a plug-in like Negative Lab Pro? If so, yeah, I could see that taking more time to edit.

I do that and I find it quicker, because it is easier to make adjustments to the non-destructive inversion process directly in LR or PS than through the destructive interface of NLP (which I have, but no longer use). The main difference between colour and B&W inversion is that you need to make adjustments to the black point in each colour channel separately.

[hirohhhh]

1 hour ago, malligator said:

Are you saying that you invert your color files yourself without the help of a plug-in like Negative Lab Pro? If so, yeah, I could see that taking more time to edit.

I used NLP but I always got the inconsistent results. For almost identical two shots, converted with NLP I get two totally different looks, white balances, contrast, so I gave up and I’m converting it myself now.

[malligator]

29 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I do that and I find it quicker, because it is easier to make adjustments to the non-destructive inversion process directly in LR or PS than through the destructive interface of NLP (which I have, but no longer use). The main difference between colour and B&W inversion is that you need to make adjustments to the black point in each colour channel separately.

 

12 minutes ago, hirohhhh said:

I used NLP but I always got the inconsistent results. For almost identical two shots, converted with NLP I get two totally different looks, white balances, contrast, so I gave up and I’m converting it myself now.

I don't really have a choice. I've tried doing the conversion myself, but I lack the fundamental knowledge of LR/PS to get it to work and since I started shooting film to get away from the computer I have no desire to learn.

If I'm converting a color negative it is to share online with friends so I do it quickly in NLP and call it good.

I'm actually at a crossroads right now with color. I don't have access to a color darkroom so if my color negatives are always going to be digitized anyway I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to just get a digital camera for color. But...then there's that whole "getting away from the computer" thing. lol

Edited February 28, 2022 by malligator

[LocalHero1953]

9 minutes ago, malligator said:

I'm actually at a crossroads right now with color. I don't have access to a color darkroom so if my color negatives are always going to be digitized anyway I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to just get a digital camera for color. But...then there's that whole "getting away from the computer" thing. lol

I can understand that. At the moment I am only using colour in film for large format (Portra and Provia), with professional film development, and B&W only for 35mm with home development. Colour scanning and inversion takes longer than B&W whether I use NLP or not, and so far I prefer the simplicity of B&W, from exposure latitude through developing, scanning and inversion. Nevertheless, I am mulling over whether to dip my toe in the water of colour development at home - not sure I need the hassle though! Almost all my colour work at the moment is digital.

[Pyrogallol]

In the first decade of this century I was developing and printing 35mm colour negatives. Using Tetenal chemicals. Once you get used to developing film at 38c instead of 20c it was pretty much the same as B&W. The print drums I used to develop the prints in are now used to develop B&W sheet film, very economical in chemicals.

[malligator]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I can understand that. At the moment I am only using colour in film for large format (Portra and Provia), with professional film development, and B&W only for 35mm with home development. Colour scanning and inversion takes longer than B&W whether I use NLP or not, and so far I prefer the simplicity of B&W, from exposure latitude through developing, scanning and inversion. Nevertheless, I am mulling over whether to dip my toe in the water of colour development at home - not sure I need the hassle though! Almost all my colour work at the moment is digital.

 

49 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

In the first decade of this century I was developing and printing 35mm colour negatives. Using Tetenal chemicals. Once you get used to developing film at 38c instead of 20c it was pretty much the same as B&W. The print drums I used to develop the prints in are now used to develop B&W sheet film, very economical in chemicals.

I agree with @Pyrogallol. I got the Cinestill temp controller (also known as a sous vide lol) and started using it for both B&W and color. C-41 is really no harder than B&W.

For me it's that final step of getting the processed negative to a final image. I'd much prefer printing in a darkroom, but I only have access to a B&W darkroom.

[LocalHero1953]

55 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

In the first decade of this century I was developing and printing 35mm colour negatives. Using Tetenal chemicals. Once you get used to developing film at 38c instead of 20c it was pretty much the same as B&W. The print drums I used to develop the prints in are now used to develop B&W sheet film, very economical in chemicals.

 

2 minutes ago, malligator said:

 

I agree with @Pyrogallol. I got the Cinestill temp controller (also known as a sous vide lol) and started using it for both B&W and color. C-41 is really no harder than B&W.

For me it's that final step of getting the processed negative to a final image. I'd much prefer printing in a darkroom, but I only have access to a B&W darkroom.

I'm sure you're right about it not being difficult. At the moment I manage temperature control by hand (in the bath) and agitation by hand. For colour I would have to buy a thermobath at least, and possibly a drum roller - I just need to decide if I can be ##sed! I'm just enjoying the simple B&W process. 

[LocalHero1953]

Since this thread has morphed from the original question and the OP is no longer with us, I would like to ask those experienced in colour development:

• Temperature control: best managed by a thermostatically controlled bath rather than by thermometer and mixing hot/cold water (my technique)?
• Agitation: best managed by mechanical roller? Hand rolled or electric? Does the roller need to be in a bath itself?
• Or is simple systematic inversion/rotation spindle (as with B&W) good enough for consistent results?

Edited February 28, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[Ouroboros]

8 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Since this thread has morphed from the original question and the OP is no longer with us, I would like to ask those experienced in colour development:

• Temperature control: best managed by a thermostatically controlled bath rather than by thermometer and mixing hot/cold water (my technique)?
• Agitation: best managed by mechanical roller? Hand rolled or electric? Does the roller need to be in a bath itself?
• Or is simple systematic inversion/rotation spindle (as with B&W) good enough for consistent results?

Far more convenient with a thermostatically controlled bath.  I use a Nova processor  for convenience but you could easily make your own with a fish tank heater for temperature control

Unnecessary

Agitate as you would with black and white film

[malligator]

25 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Since this thread has morphed from the original question and the OP is no longer with us, I would like to ask those experienced in colour development:

• Temperature control: best managed by a thermostatically controlled bath rather than by thermometer and mixing hot/cold water (my technique)?
• Agitation: best managed by mechanical roller? Hand rolled or electric? Does the roller need to be in a bath itself?
• Or is simple systematic inversion/rotation spindle (as with B&W) good enough for consistent results?

TCS-1000

I apologize for posting what is essentially a commercial, but it's the quickest way to show you my setup. I just bought everything you see them using (TCS, rubbermaid tub, bottles, etc) and use my existing paterson tank. I use it for both color and B&W. I know it's overkill for B&W, but my chemicals get very cold in the basement so I put them in the bath set to 20C and comeback an hour later ready to process.

Answers:

1. TCS
2. I invert as normal, but I'm working in the basement with concrete floors so I have no issue dripping water everywhere. You could use the little agitation stick, too.
3. See #2.

Edited February 28, 2022 by malligator

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[LocalHero1953]

13 minutes ago, malligator said:

TCS-1000

I apologize for posting what is essentially a commercial, but it's the quickest way to show you my setup.

No problem - thanks for bring this to me attention - I had just been looking at Jobo and Nova till now.