Summaron M 35/3.5 googled to non googled conversion

[fabianoliver]

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Hi everyone! How are you
A long time ago I asked myself a question:
Why the Summaron 35 / 3.5 M mount that has goggles, it gives error in focus when I use it without googles.
I know it was designed for the M3 that not has the 35mm viewfinder
Is there a way to modify it so that it works without googles?
A friend has one sleeping on the shelf.
I want to use it with my digital Leica M, but without the goggles, is it worth investigating?
Thanks!

[pippy]

No; not in the 'normal' way - as you have already discovered.

I believe the issue is that the focussing cam at the rear of the goggled version is ground to a different slope / profile (than the "M2" version) specifically so as to work with the auxilliary eyepieces and the camera's rangefinder patches.

It might, however, be able to be used with an M camera which has the Live View function. I simply don't know.

Philip.

Edited November 22, 2021 by pippy

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[jaapv]

The whole problem is that the goggled version has a different helicoid adjusted to compensate for the magnification of optical strength of the goggles. So to turn it into an ungoggled one would mean adjusting or replacing the helicoid, or, as mentioned, use Live View/EVF only. The removable goggles version locks the infinity stop when the goggles are removed for that reason.

[Jean-Michel]

I have used a 'goggled' 35 Summicron for decades, mostly on M4 and M6, then M9 and M-P. In film days I kept my 50 mm on my M3, and only rarely used the 35 on the M3 since I had the M4. The advantage of the goggles' on a all those bodies is to permit an easier view of the 35 mm field for people using eye-glasses, the disadvantage is, of course, the smaller rangefinder patch. That was never a problem in film days, but became a bit of an issue when I moved to digital Ms, probably a combination of older eyesight and higher demands from the digital sensors. 

[fabianoliver]

Thanks for your comments, i see there's no an easy way to do it....

I've had the lens at home for some days, and feel the camera bulky, i even had an M3 in the past with a non googled 35/3.5 and i used the full window to compose, with sufficient accuracy for the style of photography i used to do.

i've a 40/1.4 voigtlander for my M8, and even if 35 is close to 40, i miss a bit the summaron, i remember in the 80's, my first leica cames with the 35/3.5, and i didn't knew that it was possible to clean the haze inside the lens, so i never took advantage of his full potential.

Now i'm in the way to try again 30 years later.

 

thanks!

 

 

[pippy]

1 hour ago, fabianoliver said:

...I've a 40/1.4 voigtlander for my M8, and even if 35 is close to 40, i miss a bit the summaron...

Firstly, Fabian, as I'm sure you already know the 35mm on your M8 will, in effect, be the same as a 47mm on a full-frame sensor due to the 1.33x nature of the cropped sensor of your camera. If you wish to have the same field of view as your 35 Summaron then you should be looking at a 28mm.

That said if you like the 40mm f1.4 Nokton then you might wish to consider the equivalent 35mm lens from Voigtlander. Whereas the first version of their 35mm f1.4 had a few unhelpful issues the more recent v2 release of Voigtlander's 35mm f1.4 Nokton has received almost nothing but sparkling reviews and comments. It is, in effect, a more modern re-design of the v2 (1967-'95) 35mm Summilux - with (probably) "better" optical performance - in some ways - for good measure...

I've not had any personal experience of the newer lens but I do know the 40mm f1.4 very well as it has been my most-used lens ever since I bought it seven or eight years ago (specifically to use with the M8.2 I had at the time) and also have both a '54 35mm f3.5 Summaron-M and the v2 Summilux as mentioned here. If you wish to ask any particular questions about how any of these compare then please feel free to ask (or send me a PM) and I'll try to help as best I can.

Philip.

Edited November 23, 2021 by pippy

[fabianoliver]

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Hello Philip, txs for your repply.

How was the combo M8.2-summaron?, i mean talking about the noise at high iso in the M8 series.

Do you feel the need of the extra 2 stops anytime the sun goes down, or in interiors? the 1.4 vs 3.5 in the M8 seems to be a big help....

The size of the summaron atracts me.

Thanks!

[pippy]

1 hour ago, fabianoliver said:

How was the combo M8.2-summaron?, i mean talking about the noise at high iso in the M8 series.

Do you feel the need of the extra 2 stops anytime the sun goes down, or in interiors? the 1.4 vs 3.5 in the M8 seems to be a big help....

The size of the summaron atracts me...

FWIW, Fabian, my experience(s) and thoughts are;

I didn't use the M8 with the f3.5 Summaron at high ISO. Well, not quite; I used it once at ISO 1600 and not again as the noise wasn't acceptable. As a direct result I bought two new lenses (I had owned the Summaron since '79 / '80 for use with my M2) which were the (previously mentioned) 40mm f1.4 Nokton and, to take over '35mm' duties the then-current-but-latterly-superceded 28mm f2 Voigtlander Ultron (also a great performer and, design wise, based on Leica's own 28mm f2.8 Elmarit).

The 40 f1.4 gave me an extra 2 1/2 stops over the Summaron and even the smaller f2 of the 28 still gave me an extra 1 1/2 stops so the Summaron was only ever used outdoors and in good weather. In your position I could not recommend the f3.5 Summaron. It is a wonderful lens in its own way and I do still use mine but, IMO, has limited use with an M8 after dusk or indoors.

In good light the Summaron is a great little lens. I treated mine to a CLA just after I bought my M8.2 and was stunned by how good was the performance. There is no distortion. With the M8 the sharpness is pretty much superb all across the frame - and it is a very sharp lens - almost from wide-open because, due to the crop-sensor of the M8, the corner-performance is not using the extremes of the lens' circle of projection so ultimate corner resolution fall-off and the inherent vignetting are simply no longer there!

In your situation and using an M8 if I were looking for a fast 35mm lens to use (as, in effect, a 50mm) which is readily available for a good price then I'd go for the v2 35mm f1.4 Voigtlander Nokton. IMO - but only based on from what I've seen and read - probably the best small-sized f1.4 lens made in M-mount since the old Summilux of which it is a near copy. To get anything 'better' yet similar in size you really would have to look at getting an old, clean Summilux.

If you are prepared to give up one stop then there are many more alternatives...but in your shoes I'd stick with the extra speed of the Nokton.

Just my own thoughts.

Philip.

Edited November 23, 2021 by pippy

[fabianoliver]

Thanks for your opinion Philip, very clear.

for sure i'll miss the 1.4 of the 40...

I'll let pass the summaron ( even the copy i'm talking aboit is the googled one), an i'll try to stick to wide apertures for the M8...