CL and high ISO, noise and software (split-off thread)

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, ymc226 said:

Hello Jaapv.  Seeing your results, I just got both DeNoise AI and Sharpen AI; both will be used as Lightroom Classic plug ins.  Can you tell me how you perform multiple passes and use morLR so I am not an expert. e than one editing program from the initial DNG?  Do you run the DNG in Sharpen from LR then save back to LR as a TIFF, then run that TIFF in Sharpen AI again, save that 2nd TIFF in LR and then run that 2nd TIFF in DeNoise AI and save back to LR as a third TIFF.  Finally do you then delete the first 2 TIFFs?

II don't use LR so I am not an expert there either. In PS I  click the plugin, it opens up and it returns to PS.after applying,
it should work the same way in LR; just run "edit in" again. If you want to avoid multiple copies just tick "edit original", I suppose.

If you find it slow, I fear that is in the computer. AI programs eat processing power and RAM. I found  a substantial increase in speed using an M1 Mac. It brings the processing time for  Topaz and the automatic masking in PS (another AI implementation) down from minutes to seconds.

 

May I recommend Matt's workflow tutorial:

 

 

[nicci78]

AI based software absolutely needs a neural engine aka NPU. It is quite common in smartphones & tablet world since Apple A11 Bionic chip. But right now only in PC/Mac world only Apple M1 or M1 Pro or M1 Max have such thing in their SOC. 
Intel and AMD do not plan to add an NPU before years. On Windows you will need powerful but inefficient CPU and GPU for that. 

Intel is rumoured to integrate a VPU (kind of NPU) into future Meteor lake CPU in late 2023 at best. 
Since then we will be playing with Apple M3 generation SOC. 

So it is time to switch to Mac M1 😉 they are awesome. 
Of course you can wait for future Mac Pro with M1 Max Quadro and their octo NPU instead of only one on M1, M1 Pro and M1 Max. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by nicci78

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[LocalHero1953]

I use a PC with RTX2080 GPU card and AMD Ryzen 9 3900x CPU and plenty of RAM. It runs Topaz without problems: Sharpen and Denoise update the previews <5 secs and process the whole image in around 30secs. Running them from Lightroom, the process that seems to take the longest is updating the preview in LR after Topaz has shut - this can take minutes.

Edited November 14, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[nicci78]

Don’t worry M1 Pro is faster than your setup 😉

especially for AI stuff. Nothing beats dedicated NPU

[LocalHero1953]

51 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Don’t worry M1 Pro is faster than your setup 😉

especially for AI stuff. Nothing beats dedicated NPU

Your hyperbole makes for entertaining reading, but is unreliable as a source of advice.

[cirke]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Don’t worry M1 Pro is faster than your setup 😉

especially for AI stuff. Nothing beats dedicated NPU

Aren't you tired of blowing smoke?

[EUSe]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 19 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

Well, I have this one, admittedly it was at 800, a bit underexposed and quite a bit of camera shake, it was pretty dark. I'll do some real high ISO later.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Topaz Sharpen AI removed the motion blur on the statue in the first pass, crisped it in the second pass and removed the noise in the flattened image with DeNoise AI.

 

 

I hope you don't take offense - but this is still slightly blurry. This is my experience with PS CC 21 and the motion blur reducing tool. It works to a certain degree, but a sharp photo is a sharp photo...

[lct]

I don't use those denoise softwares that give a plastic look to my pics i feel. Reason why i don't use my CL (and M240) above 3200 iso generally but YMMV.

[Marac]

I don't mind a bit of grain, even digital grain has its place especially with the M9M

[jaapv]

I never use PS for motion blur. The tool has always been inadequate, as is USM for web display BTW (pronounced halos) in the past I used Focus Magic for motion and High Pass for general , now I use Topaz. I must confess that I do not see what you are seeing right now, but I will have a look when I get to my editing computer and run Topaz over the image of needed. 

[jaapv]

17 minutes ago, lct said:

I don't use those denoise softwares that give a plastic look to my pics i feel. Reason why i don't use my CL (and M240) above 3200 iso generally but YMMV.

They don’t….That was ten years back. 

[lct]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

They don’t….That was ten years back. 

Sorry Jaap but the look of your pic above is kind of a demo of what i don't like in those softwares but this is a subjective matter obviously so again YMMV.

[jaapv]

Ok I can change it to your taste. Just give me some time. 

[nicci78]

Just remember that noise is way better than motion blur. 
Do not hesitate to use very high ISO and be able to use the fast shutter speed you need. 
IBIS and OIS are useless for moving subject like living people. You still need high ISO and fast shutter speed. 
 

Ultimately you can get rid of most noise with denoise softwares. But motion blur is way too difficult to correct. 
 

By the way I never use any noise reduction. 
I am happy with my very settings. 
CL at 25,000 without any noise reduction at all. 
 

If you are a fan of film photography. You should be okay with high ISO look. At 25,000 CL will still be quite similar to 400 ISO film. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by nicci78

[cirke]

I always have a hard time knowing what would be good for others

I never sharpen and never remove the noise but ONLY because I prefer it like that not because it is better like that

Edited November 14, 2021 by cirke

[ECohen]

26 minutes ago, cirke said:

I always have a hard time knowing what would be good for others

I never sharpen and never remove the noise but ONLY because I prefer it like that not because it is better like that

And maybe I'm so 10 years ago but its why I ask .

Am I asking too much for good enough out of the camera for simple indoor low light photos?

But my question has already been answered 😉

After all these years I personally think cameras should be "better" than they are.

 

 

 

[cirke]

Just now, ECohen said:

After all these years I personally think cameras should be "better" than they are.

I think (on the contrary) that the cameras today are far above our needs and even further above our talents, but far below our claims 🙂

[lct]

13 minutes ago, ECohen said:

And maybe I'm so 10 years ago but its why I ask .

Am I asking too much for good enough out of the camera for simple indoor low light photos?

But my question has already been answered 😉

After all these years I personally think cameras should be "better" than they are.

Not sure where your feeling comes from but 1600 asa let alone 3200 asa color films were very noisy or grainy in the film days and 10 years ago i could hardly get clean digital color results above 800 iso if memory serves me well. Now i can get clean 1600 iso and still decent 3200 iso color pics with a CL w/o having to resort to denoising softwares. Just shot this masterwork to give you an idea. Leica digital CL, CV 28/2, f/2, OoC jpeg:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-digital-CL-CV-282-asph/i-sFQ9gJB/0/a44aad16/X4/C1110994-X4.jpg

[aksclix]

6 minutes ago, lct said:

Now i can get clean 1600 iso and still decent 3200 iso color pics with a CL

I find images from my CL unacceptable at 3200.. sometimes even at 1600.. there is a lot of color noise and it doesn’t look pretty.. it’s probably my Only complaint with the CL

Edited November 14, 2021 by aksclix

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[ECohen]

 

7 minutes ago, lct said:

Not sure where your feeling comes from but 1600 asa let alone 3200 asa color films were very noisy or grainy in the film days and 10 years ago i could hardly get clean digital color results above 800 iso if memory serves me well. Now i can get clean 1600 iso and still decent 3200 iso color pics with a CL w/o having to resort to denoising softwares. Just shot this masterwork to give you an idea. Leica digital CL, CV 28/2, f/2, OoC jpeg:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-digital-CL-CV-282-asph/i-sFQ9gJB/0/a44aad16/X4/C1110994-X4.jpg

Its me. I have been doing photography for 50 years ......its never come easy to me.

Even the simple stuff, sorry for the rant. Yes Digital is far better than film in many/most ways.

I guess I expect too much from tech after all these years I expect 3200 to look like 200 out of the camera

Look at the flight/the airplane  and 100 years of tech.