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Iron Flatline

My M8 is all out of whack...

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Originally Posted by hankg

Digital cameras are not really collectibles they will be junk in a few years while your M3 will be still as functional as the day it was made.

I am not so sure of this... in general, the collectibles market is very dynamic and the "time & tech" factor is fundamental... Old electronics (radio & c.) are a collectible, and among such people there are the ones devoted to glass valvs, the ones devoted to first generation transistors... and tape recorders too... (and I have the nine Beethoven symphonies in a fine case full of 78 rpm heavy disks of the '30s... I am not a collector of, but I am rather sure that if I'll go to some trade fair or put on ebay I'll receive some kind of offer for them). There is the classic Leicas collector's market, the old wooden + brass cameras collectors market, the '70s SLR collector market... I wouldn't at all be surprised if when ...I'll be in my eighties

... there will be a collectors market for the Digital Cameras... and if so is probable that a fine M8 shall have a decent evaluation in it. The problem is COLLECTIBLES AS USABLES ... you can use a Leica I until it's working AND the 35mm film cartridge is on the market (I like TLR Rolleiflexes.. never bought a "Baby Rollei" for you cannot find 127 film, not to speak of processing..)... you can use an M8 until it works AND SD cards or at least USB AND all the related technologies, file formats etc are available and/or manegeable in some way (and the batteries...) : but usables and collectables are different things: and in terms of value for collectors, the correlation is not so strong : many 120 rollfilm cameras worth much less than unusable 626 rollfilm cameras, for instance.

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It seems likely to me that the when/if the M9 is introduced, especially if it happens to be full-frame, the M8 will continue to be produced as a second line model - probably with some price decrease. This would make good sense for Leica, since they will get more sales out of the existing design and by that time their marginal cost should have decreased.

 

I don't know if they've ever produced two M models concurrently before?

 

David.

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WOW ! Many thanks! I didn't imagine one can find 127... and the Baby is SO fine... do you know i there is a source for color film too ? And what about processing / printing ? (OT, of course, PM to me if have news about...)

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I don't know if they've ever produced two M models concurrently before?

 

David.

 

Even five at one point of time: The M3,M2,M1,MP and MD. Actually it were six, because a small run of 18x24 M cameras was produced as well then. The seventh type doesn't really count as that was a simplified run of MD's for the German electricity board to photograph meters. Also later two widely differing M type cameras in the M5 and CL were produced and I believe the MD1 was still running then.

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Even five at one point of time: The M3,M2,M1,MP and MD. Actually it were six, because a small run of 18x24 M cameras was produced as well then Also later two widely differing M type cameras in the M5 and CL.

 

So then it seems extremely likely to me that the M8 would continue as a second tier model if/when the M9 arrives. I guess I'd see that as more likely than a new lower spec M coming out, since I can't really imagine what they would de-spec from the M8 in order to creat such a camera.

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Originally Posted by dpattinson

I don't know if they've ever produced two M models concurrently before?

 

David.

 

What, like M7, MP and M8, pick any two?

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Guest tummydoc
Vinay, all I said was that, I don't believe members of the LHSA are typical of Leica users as a whole, and that my personal experience is that Leica users are younger than the 60+ years you say the LHSA members are. Now I'm not saying my experience is that they are all in their early 20s, but at a guess I'd put the average somewhere around 40.

 

Once again I'm being mis-understood and mis-quoted. I was speaking about BUYERS OF NEW Leica product (excluding Panasonic clones), NOT Leica USERS as a whole!!!

 

I think 40 is way too low for an average or even a median age for BUYERS OF NEW Leica items. I'd peg the average age at least at 55, with the median perhaps a bit lower but not less than 50. I do not believe the ages of forum participants is reflective of the market at large.

 

Second of all, age is a secondary qualification. Income and/or net worth is the primary qualification, and since that tends to rise along with age in the general demographic, strong evidence that the majority of Leica's market for NEW items is older than 40. Especially when one considers that the Leica name, let alone it's history and mythology, are largely un-known to those under 40.

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Once again I'm being mis-understood and mis-quoted. I was speaking about BUYERS OF NEW Leica product (excluding Panasonic clones), NOT Leica USERS as a whole!!!

 

I think 40 is way too low for an average or even a median age for BUYERS OF NEW Leica items. I'd peg the average age at least at 55, with the median perhaps a bit lower but not less than 50. I do not believe the ages of forum participants is reflective of the market at large.

 

Second of all, age is a secondary qualification. Income and/or net worth is the primary qualification, and since that tends to rise along with age in the general demographic, strong evidence that the majority of Leica's market for NEW items is older than 40. Especially when one considers that the Leica name, let alone it's history and mythology, are largely un-known to those under 40.

 

Let's not fight without real statistics to back us up. Although I bought my first used M3 when I was 29 and my first new Leica M6 about a decade later, I do feel that Vinay's assesment could be close to the truth,although the demographic pattern of M8 sales might be different. For one thing its digital nature combined with retro appeal might attract a group of younger but affluent buyers - for instance IT professionals and financial wizards, lets call them the Mini Cooper public, and for another the general living standard in the western world is a magnitude higher than it was in the time of the heyday of the venerable M 3.

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There was a poll on this forum about 2 years ago, which put the average age of "us" at around 45 - 47, IIRC.

 

There's no reason to suppose it would be any different now.

 

I will set up a poll in the Customer section, with a range of ages. It would be interesting to see..

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I would think that anyone truely involved with photography whether amateur or Pro from any age group, NOT just someone that takes snapshots on vacation, would of heard of the name Leica. That's not to say they have ever bought any Leica gear.

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Ed,

 

From my more experience of using Leicas both digital and film over say the last 15 years, I think you might be surprised how many keen photographers have not registered the Leica name, nor know anything of its historical significance. Remember 60% of under 21's questioned in the UK did not know which war D-day was in. Memories are short. When I first started to use my father's Leicas in the 1950's, every photographer recognised them. They always assumed the Reid III I got in 1959 was a Leica (wish I still had it). The only person who has shown any interest in my M8 was an elderly German gentleman in the tube in Barcelona. I was present at a pro photo shoot of some racing cars last week. None of the team of three young pro-photographers gave the M8 a second glance, whereas they were all over the 1DSMk3, one of them was carrying.

 

Wilson

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I was present at a pro photo shoot of some racing cars last week. None of the team of three young pro-photographers gave the M8 a second glance, whereas they were all over the 1DSMk3, one of them was carrying.

 

Wilson

 

That shouldn't be a surprise. I walked around an American LeMans race back in July with a Nikon D2X & 300/2.8 combo and an MP3 / vit combo. Many, many comments about the Nikon, only one person (another M shooter) gave notice to the Leica. It's a subtle instrument that doesn't register with everyone....and even those who know the Leica name, may not really care enough to bother. There is still a strong sentiment out there that Leica's are overpriced elitist toys....

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That shouldn't be a surprise. I walked around an American LeMans race back in July with a Nikon D2X & 300/2.8 combo and an MP3 / vit combo. Many, many comments about the Nikon, only one person (another M shooter) gave notice to the Leica. It's a subtle instrument that doesn't register with everyone....and even those who know the Leica name, may not really care enough to bother. There is still a strong sentiment out there that Leica's are overpriced elitist toys....

 

Being a working tool and elitist toy are not incompatible. I remember a conversation with a sales rep for a 3D system I had purchased for my retouching studio back in the 80's. Back then the box and software (SGI and Alias) would set you back about $50,000. He told me he had a client who was a wealthy individual client (don't recall the profession may have been doctor or dentist) who had purchased a system for himself. He had an avid interest in 3D and wanted the best.

 

There are plenty of Canon, Leica, Hasselblad, etc., systems bought for the same reasons. There are a lot of hobbyists who own $15,000 in Canon gear to take snapshots at the family get together who like to make themselves feel better by looking down on the 'posers' who buy Leica gear. After all they use a Canon PRO camera not an 'overpriced toy'. Ya right.

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There are plenty of Canon, Leica, Hasselblad, etc., systems bought for the same reasons. There are a lot of hobbyists who own $15,000 in Canon gear to take snapshots at the family get together who like to make themselves feel better by looking down on the 'posers' who buy Leica gear. After all they use a Canon PRO camera not an 'overpriced toy'. Ya right.

 

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Guest tummydoc
Let's not fight without real statistics to back us up.

 

Hey, it's not like I'm sending troops to invade some country

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