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Leica SL2-S woes...


TinyTempo
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So, I got the SL2-S today to join my trusted Panasonic S5 (I hate changing lenses, hence a new body :) )... a few things struck me as very weird, and even after reading the manual and asking Mr. Google for advice, I am a bit at a loss and irritated.

1) After moving the focus point via the joystick, why does pressing the joystick down not reset the position to the middle? How do I get it to reset?

2) Why can I only adjust the focus point / field size when touch AF is enabled and I touch the screen (hate that)? On the S5, as soon as you use the joystick, it switches to a mode where I can use the front wheel to adjust the size. And yes, pressing the s5 joystick resets the point to the middle.

3) Umm... no option for single-press AE-lock? And it does not work at all when person recognition is enabled? Come on Leica...

4) Zoom in playback does not automatically zoom onto the focus point. Huh? 2007 wants its camera back!

5) Why is the auto ISO implementation so poor? Why can't I set the maximum shutter speed in relation to the focal length, for example "normal" = 1 / focal length, "fast" = 1 / (focal length * 2) .... and so on? It's implemented on my M10, why not here?

OK, so what am I missing here?

Cheers,

Markus

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Another thing... why do I have to enable focus peaking in the display settings? It should (optionally) be automatically enabled when I am in manual focus mode or when I turn the focus ring on the lens in normal AF mode. Speaking of manual focus in AF mode, it would be nice if the magnification could kick in automatically here as well, and if that behavior could be toggled via an option.

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14 hours ago, TinyTempo said:

Another thing... why do I have to enable focus peaking in the display settings? It should (optionally) be automatically enabled when I am in manual focus mode or when I turn the focus ring on the lens in normal AF mode. Speaking of manual focus in AF mode, it would be nice if the magnification could kick in automatically here as well, and if that behavior could be toggled via an option.

Not everyone likes the peaking, hence why you can create up to 4 profile in the fn toggle display button, and you can activate/deactivate peaking in any number of them.

I imagine most people shooting with their wide M-lenses, used to hyperfocal focus, would not be supper happy to see everything in red when shooting street at f8, perhaps.

For the automatic loupe, you can activate this option in the focus assist menu. Any AF lens will trigger it when you manually turn the focus ring when in AF or MF mode with this ootion. It is also good that you can de-activate it because, an example; if you shoot video w/o sd card inserted and when paired with an atomos, if you manually focus you will accidentally record the punch-in zoom in your atomos during a take. A big-no-no obviously.

 

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15 hours ago, TinyTempo said:

4) Zoom in playback does not automatically zoom onto the focus point. Huh? 2007 wants its camera back!

I enjoyed your 'astonishment report' :) For me number 4 is annoying indeed (but hardly a dealbreaker). The rest you mention are not an issue for me personally, just part of the design aesthetic = "horses for courses"

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16 hours ago, TinyTempo said:

So, I got the SL2-S today to join my trusted Panasonic S5 (I hate changing lenses, hence a new body :) )... a few things struck me as very weird, and even after reading the manual and asking Mr. Google for advice, I am a bit at a loss and irritated.

1) After moving the focus point via the joystick, why does pressing the joystick down not reset the position to the middle? How do I get it to reset?

2) Why can I only adjust the focus point / field size when touch AF is enabled and I touch the screen (hate that)? On the S5, as soon as you use the joystick, it switches to a mode where I can use the front wheel to adjust the size. And yes, pressing the s5 joystick resets the point to the middle.

3) Umm... no option for single-press AE-lock? And it does not work at all when person recognition is enabled? Come on Leica...

4) Zoom in playback does not automatically zoom onto the focus point. Huh? 2007 wants its camera back!

5) Why is the auto ISO implementation so poor? Why can't I set the maximum shutter speed in relation to the focal length, for example "normal" = 1 / focal length, "fast" = 1 / (focal length * 2) .... and so on? It's implemented on my M10, why not here?

OK, so what am I missing here?

Cheers,

Markus

1) After moving the focus point via the joystick, why does pressing the joystick down not reset the position to the middle? How do I get it to reset?

=> Sadly this is extremely annoying and its been the same since leica q v1 so i dont think it will change. The only way to do it is by double tapping on the screen. 

2) Why can I only adjust the focus point / field size when touch AF is enabled and I touch the screen (hate that)? On the S5, as soon as you use the joystick, it switches to a mode where I can use the front wheel to adjust the size. And yes, pressing the s5 joystick resets the point to the middle.

=> is the only way, and this is actually new, with the previous firmware it was not even possible to change the size.

3) 4) 5) => this is leicas way of praising simplicity :) 

I am coming from a Pana S1 and Canon 5d mark 4, i could basically configure the camera as i wanted, with leica you are limited, but you end getting used to it.... not much you can do about it, its the price to pay besides the $$$ for using their systems. 

What i miss the must is:

- AF lock without the need to continue pressing the button.

- Assign a button to be able to change minimum shutter speed for auto iso, (directly without the need of scrolling through the auto iso settings)

- the option to disable shutter focus button and only use back fucos button. Yes can be done if you set the lens to manual, but pana lenss who use the clutch can be set up this way. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Malabito said:

1) After moving the focus point via the joystick, why does pressing the joystick down not reset the position to the middle? How do I get it to reset?

=> Sadly this is extremely annoying and its been the same since leica q v1 so i dont think it will change. The only way to do it is by double tapping on the screen. 

2) Why can I only adjust the focus point / field size when touch AF is enabled and I touch the screen (hate that)? On the S5, as soon as you use the joystick, it switches to a mode where I can use the front wheel to adjust the size. And yes, pressing the s5 joystick resets the point to the middle.

=> is the only way, and this is actually new, with the previous firmware it was not even possible to change the size.

3) 4) 5) => this is leicas way of praising simplicity :) 

I am coming from a Pana S1 and Canon 5d mark 4, i could basically configure the camera as i wanted, with leica you are limited, but you end getting used to it.... not much you can do about it, its the price to pay besides the $$$ for using their systems. 

What i miss the must is:

- AF lock without the need to continue pressing the button.

- Assign a button to be able to change minimum shutter speed for auto iso, (directly without the need of scrolling through the auto iso settings)

- the option to disable shutter focus button and only use back fucos button. Yes can be done if you set the lens to manual, but pana lenss who use the clutch can be set up this way. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cameras are easy from the point of view that there isn`t page after page of menus like other makes but that belies the often weird logic behind some of the operations .

There`s a lot of presumptions made in terms of what choices you want to make rather than setting out those choices and letting the user decide . 

That`s one way in which they minimalise the menus but I don`t find it helpful .

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Malabito:

The only way to do it is by double tapping on the screen. 

Unfortunately, not even that seems to work for me :( And I do have touch AF enabled for this test. Disabling it doesn't do a thing either, but that is expected I guess.

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb Slender:

Explore the camera a bit more and you will see it "works"

Well, it does work of course, but I am surprised that things which are both useful and industry standard are not implemented. This is supposed to be a system suitable for pros, and not the (intentionally) pure experience of an M (which I love). 

Anyway, I contacted Leica about my issues and did receive a response that they pass the suggestions on to the firmware development team. I do not have high hopes that they get implemented anytime soon, but at least I gave it a shot. The coding work itself should be minimal (I am a software developer myself), so maybe they come around to it some day or for the SL3 in a couple of years.

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7 hours ago, Slender said:

You can recenter focus point by double tapping the screen. Perhaps there are other recall options but I am happy just moving the joystick around.

Explore the camera a bit more and you will see it "works"

 

45 minutes ago, TinyTempo said:

Unfortunately, not even that seems to work for me :( And I do have touch AF enabled for this test. Disabling it doesn't do a thing either, but that is expected I guess.

I use the double tap to get focus point back to center again too. One of those Ah-Ha moments once you learn about this feature ( it is a different approach) There is a potential downside though as double tap requires touch AF is turned on and then your nose may or may not have the final say where the focus point resides when raising the camera to your eye.

As long as you are aware of nose touch AF ha ha, then you can manage the double tap better.

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vor 32 Minuten schrieb LBJ2:

I use the double tap to get focus point back to center again too.

I just tried it again, it does not work. Firmware version 2.1. Touch AF is on, and I tried different AF modes. Double-tapping the screen only moves the focus point to where I tap, it does not reset to the middle. Tried many different double-tapping-speeds, too.

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30 minutes ago, TinyTempo said:

I just tried it again, it does not work. Firmware version 2.1. Touch AF is on, and I tried different AF modes. Double-tapping the screen only moves the focus point to where I tap, it does not reset to the middle. Tried many different double-tapping-speeds, too.

Edit. Maybe one fine detail. You do have to double tap in the very near center of the back screen to double tap the AF point to center. 

Edited by LBJ2
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52 minutes ago, TinyTempo said:

I just tried it again, it does not work. Firmware version 2.1. Touch AF is on, and I tried different AF modes. Double-tapping the screen only moves the focus point to where I tap, it does not reset to the middle. Tried many different double-tapping-speeds, too.

 

33 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Edit. Maybe one fine detail. You do have to double tap in the very near center of the back screen to double tap the AF point to center. 

The moving focus point  drove me crazy, so I turned off Touch AF & it only moves with the joystick now. Double tapping to re-centre the focus point with Touch AF disabled does not work on the SL-2S & SL2.

Oddly enough on the CL double tapping does re-centre the focus point even with Touch AF off. 

As LBJ2 says above, with Touch AF on it will re-centre with a double tap, but you need to tap in the centre of the screen.

 

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vor 37 Minuten schrieb LBJ2:

Edit. Maybe one fine detail. You do have to double tap in the very near center of the back screen to double tap the AF point to center. 

I tried anywhere, it simply does not work for me :( The focus point moves exactly where I double-tap, so even if I am close to or at the center, it does not feel like it actually centers rather than just following the tap.

Edited by TinyTempo
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1 hour ago, TinyTempo said:

I tried anywhere, it simply does not work for me :( The focus point moves exactly where I double-tap, so even if I am close to or at the center, it does not feel like it actually centers rather than just following the tap.

I will look at this further. There may be another option/approach.

At a minimum you can display the Grid 3x3 and use that as a reference for tapping or confirming exact center for the AF point. Depending on how you have your camera set up, tap the FN button until you see the display Grid 3x3. 

Edited by LBJ2
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16 hours ago, TinyTempo said:

Well, it does work of course, but I am surprised that things which are both useful and industry standard are not implemented. This is supposed to be a system suitable for pros, and not the (intentionally) pure experience of an M (which I love). 

I've read your points and I'm absolutely sure they are valid if you compare the Sl2-S to other cameras. However, considering myself a pro, I never remotely touched these boarders you mention, not even knew that they might exists. The only thing I understand of being fairly stupid is:

4) Zoom in playback does not automatically zoom onto the focus point. Huh? 2007 wants its camera back!

However, I never check because, in doubt, I shoot again. I can't afford losing contact to the environment when looking down on the camera's screen.

There could be a 6) Why is the peeking weaker/unusable in Log mode when the camera isn't rolling? Checking focus before shooting is a regular routine of 100% of all camera people.

There are many ways of using the SL2-S. I do both, stills and video, mostly people and storytelling, sometimes landscapes. And there are tons of applications, habits and whatnot. There is no real industry standard. In terms of usability and ergonomics there is nothing comparable on the market - for me.

On the bright side, you've contacted Leica and so did others who experience these issues, I assume. Thanks for doing so. Most people only complain and do nothing.

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20 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

I use the double tap to get focus point back to center again too. One of those Ah-Ha moments once you learn about this feature ( it is a different approach) There is a potential downside though as double tap requires touch AF is turned on and then your nose may or may not have the final say where the focus point resides when raising the camera to your eye.

 

You can have touch focus un-active when EVF detects your eye in.

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