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Hypothetical Question ??????? this should stir the pot


Artin
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10 minutes ago, Matlock said:

The M stands for Messsucher or Rangefinder which the M1 and MD do not have.

Had to look both up. 

"The M1 has a parallax-corrected viewfinder with frames for 35 and 50mm permanently displayed"

What do you mean by Leica MD ? Rangefinders pop up when I google Leica MD.

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Mods have been busy moderating this afternoon. Posters (with multiple registrations and names, all from the same desk) and posts have been removed, and banned as appropriate. Unfortunately, it is not possible to block IP address ranges, as there could be legitimate members posting from the same area. This person will continue to be dealt with appropriately, as I am sure that they have nothing better to do than re register here and troll. They have been trolling the forum for a while, a

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Ennnh. I'm 67+, suffering from glaucoma, macular degeneration, emergent cataracts, and rapidly-shifting optical prescriptions (due to the meds required for the first). Nevertheless, I can still focus a 135 f/4 and a 75mm f/1.4 consistently and sharply with the Leica(M10) rangefinder. Without embarassment (except when *I* screw up - which isn't the fault of the camera ). A little incipent primary tremor is the least of my problems, since I don't photograph "dead, motionless" stuff, but

LocalHero1953

Sorry - it was a tired sarcastic remark arising from one glass of red wine too many. The "it can't be an M if it doesn't have a rangefinder" statement comes up time after time, as if it made a hoot of difference to what cameras sell or don't sell. I can just imagine the discussion among the gnomes of Wetzlar "Oh f###, we can't make that camera, even thought it looks like an M, takes M lenses, and even walks like an M, and would sell like hot cakes, because it doesn't have a f###ing Messsucher in

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16 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

Had to look both up. 

"The M1 has a parallax-corrected viewfinder with frames for 35 and 50mm permanently displayed"

What do you mean by Leica MD ? Rangefinders pop up when I google Leica MD.

As NigelG has said the M1 has a viewfinder but no rangefinder and the MD series have no viewfinder at all.

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42 minutes ago, Matlock said:

The M stands for Messsucher or Rangefinder which the M1 and MD do not have.

Oh my god yes we all know what the M stands for .... all I meant was a full frame Camera with the M mount.  A real M mount no adapters just an M mount 

Edited by Artin
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4 minutes ago, Artin said:

Oh my god yes we all know what the M stands for .... all I meant was a full frame Camera with the M mount.  A real M mount no adapters just an M mount 

My reply wasn't aimed at you Artin but it seems the quite a few don't know what M stands for. I fully understood what you meant.

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No problem Mat I know that everyone understood what I mean here .. I wish everyone can clearly understand where I am going with this post .

I clearly said if Leica brought out a M mount EVF camera with full frame With some good specs would you buy one to accompany your rangefinder.

look at what they did with the SL 24-70 2.8.   Gave Sl users a choice. 24-90. Made in Germany. 7500.00 ......24-70. Made in Japan 3500 dollars 

they say the reason M is very expensive  is the rangefinder mech.. German wages .. and so on.  Well there are options 

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5 hours ago, Artin said:

 Now along side they release another camera for the M No range finder .. high Rez EVF.. Ibis .. 40-50MPX..electronic shutter, stacked sensor .. Video.. manual focus M mount ... Made in Japan not Germany.. But high quality standards.  Relatively same size and layout of the M ...at $3500.00 US. Would you Buy one ??  

I hate to pop the bubble but that's a Nikon Z7.

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26 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Chances are no, I wouldn't buy one because for me it doesn't give me any real use advantages over the traditional M.

 

I think it would be a wonderful platform to use with the variety of rather difficult lenses to work with such as the 75 .. wide angles noctilux and so on 

I also think it would be great way for an entry into the system on price point.. nice option when you don’t want to risk a 10,000 dollar investment in certain situations.. a so called expansion of versatility.. sort of what the CL was to the system 50 years ago. It was a fantastic little camera that was loved by large amount of M users.  And still is 

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Guest BlackBarn

For me any camera capable of using ‘M’ glass well has got to be worth a look although I am not certain if your hypothetical price point is achievable or a bit of science fiction to sway the voters.  
 

Anyway …would I buy a car which still got me from A to B made by the same manufacturer and carried the same ethos but which was 35% of their current prices and had stuff I didn’t really need like lane change assist bla bla bla but offered a less engaging and enjoyable experience when driving?

For sure I would - for my digital cameras  - if you chuck in weather sealing - and I would also be more willing to consider upgrades if and when at that price.

However saying that I’m more than certain that would make using my Mechanical M a little bit more special.
 

 

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The answer is NO. Because it most probably will rely on contrast-based manual focussing (with optional magnification). Much slower than a rangefinder or a SLR with split-view ground glass.

It is the most important asset of the M; quick manual focussing of those petite and beautiful lenses by means of that rangefinder...

Edited by Edax
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It would be wonderful.. as we sit here today I am going to a Holoween party , I would love to take my M10R along and take some interesting pictures however I am not willing to expose. 16,000 dollar investment when there will be bunch of drunk strangers all around me.. but my hypothetical M with a Voightlander on it would have been a lot more comfortable outing 

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5 minutes ago, Artin said:

It would be wonderful.. as we sit here today I am going to a Holoween party , I would love to take my M10R along and take some interesting pictures however I am not willing to expose. 16,000 dollar investment when there will be bunch of drunk strangers all around me.. but my hypothetical M with a Voightlander on it would have been a lot more comfortable outing 

Put a cheap costume on your camera.  Or buy insurance.

Jeff

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53 minutes ago, Artin said:

I think it would be a wonderful platform to use with the variety of rather difficult lenses to work with such as the 75 .. wide angles noctilux and so on 

I also think it would be great way for an entry into the system on price point.. nice option when you don’t want to risk a 10,000 dollar investment in certain situations.. a so called expansion of versatility.. sort of what the CL was to the system 50 years ago. It was a fantastic little camera that was loved by large amount of M users.  And still is 

I agree with you regarding allowing tough to focus lenses to be much easier to work with but Leica would never make a $3,500 M mount camera simply because a huge part of the M cachet is price and that price point would devalue the M. Regardless of country of manufacture.

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1 hour ago, Matlock said:

My reply wasn't aimed at you Artin but it seems the quite a few don't know what M stands for.

If they read the "M11 - your next camera?" thread - they do NOW! ;)

It's rather too bad Leica already used up the label "M-D" for the LCD-less digital Ms. And M-E for the end-of-production-life "leftovers" digitals. Because what Artin describes would fulfill the function of the film-era MD/MD-2/MDa: ttl-viewing (at most), for appropriate kinds of photography (microscopy, or with the old-school mirror Visoflex and macro/long lenses). Which made a lot of sense when Leitz actually still built microscopes - and/or had not yet developed their own SLR. ;)

Reintroducing the "MD" in digital form (as, say, an MDb, MD-2e, MDd, or MDe) at this point might be confusing - although a logical progression.

_______________

Anyway, as to the "poll" - this would never be my go-to camera, which will always have split-image manual focusing (RF/VF, or in a pinch, an SLR with split-image screen).

It might be a 4th or 5th body, for adjunct/special uses (like the film MD) - probably with an R-M adapter permanently mounted.

I think the suggested price is overly-optimistic - probably closer to $5K at a minimum. But I won't buy it if I don't have a use for it - regardless of whether it is $3495, or $4995 - or $495. ;)

"Not made in Germany" would not be a big deal as such - for a long while I only used "Made in Canada" gear. And also used the Japanese Konica Hexar RF - which had some design bugs, but was built rather nicely. I'd assume Leica would specify that it use their custom M-specific sensor (the wider M lenses require it) - so it won't have an off-the-shelf Sony or Panasonic or ???? sensor.

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6 hours ago, Artin said:

If or when say M11 is out..Ok Traditional Leica M with Rangefinder say 40-50 MPX improved buffer and all same size and same layout as always price tag $9500 us .. Great all good 

Now along side they release another camera for the M No range finder .. high Rez EVF.. Ibis .. 40-50MPX..electronic shutter, stacked sensor .. Video.. manual focus M mount ... Made in Japan not Germany.. But high quality standards.  Relatively same size and layout of the M ...at $3500.00 US. Would you Buy one ??  

NO is my hypothetical answer. 

Edited by LBJ2
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9 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

I agree with you regarding allowing tough to focus lenses to be much easier to work with but Leica would never make a $3,500 M mount camera simply because a huge part of the M cachet is price and that price point would devalue the M. Regardless of country of manufacture.

Ok how is it any different then all the other product the pumped into the market with the red logo from the point and shoots to the instant cameras. And the Lumix sisters.   How is it any different then the Sl24-70 

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