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Should You Sell Your Leica M10 Now?


Max EPR
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I just watched this video by Oz Yilmaz.  Oz suggests due to the "megapixel-wars" the M10's value is going to take a major price drop as soon as the M11 is released. Oz says the "M10 will be obsolete" The M10 is a great camera. The M11 needs to be significantly improved for me to consider upgrading to a M11. What is your opinion?

 

Edited by Max EPR
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  • Max EPR changed the title to Should You Sell Your Leica M10 Now?
4 minutes ago, mike3996 said:

Why should you? Attack the argument, not the author.

Attack? May I ask how never having heard of the author is an attack? Except it seems I'm attacked for not knowing, ironic that isn't it? A second irony is you attack me for not attacking the argument which is untrue, please refer to my answer to the second question, but you don't attack the argument at all, unless the argument you are having is with me and ignoring the original argument. Or did you get out of bed the wrong side and are just feeling grumpy? 

Edited by 250swb
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Would the performance and quality of the M10 cameras, that currently satisfy and please their owners,  change the slightest, when a new-improved model is introduced? The answer is obvious = no. To quote someone strange and famous "it is what it is." So, no need to sell what works well.

ADDING another Leica, old or new, is of course a different decision 🙂. Currently I am happy with my Leica film cameras and an aging-gracefully M240. But there is always room for another Leica 😉.

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well whatever this guys opinion is that’s not  relevant . But the fact is that yes prices will drop when the next one shows up. That is very normal in any and every product. Whether it’s a camera or a TV or a Toaster.. some users will go for the newer some won’t. And yes some will be able to purchase M10s for a better price in about 6-7 months 

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4 hours ago, 250swb said:

Who is 'Oz Yilmaz' and has there ever been a price crash before when a new model is released? The answer to the second question is 'no', but I don't know the answer to the first question.

I purchased my second hand Leica M9-P from Red Dot Cameras on 25 September 2012, it cost £3599. As I recall the camera, with several others, had been listed at £1000 more prior to the announcement of the Leica M (240) a few days earlier and was dropped following it.

I'm not sure if you'd call this a crash, but certainly the second hand price of the previous model fell at a retailer following the announcement of a new model.

It was great for me as it just about enabled me to be able to afford a full frame digital Leica - which remains my main camera. 

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Well I sold my M10 at a good price last year when I took delivery of my M10R.

I see the possibility of a 45-55MPx sensor with high ISO capability to become the likely offering in the M11. Such a sensor coupled with an improved eye/face detect AF would make much better sense into the SL3 body. As for an M, maintaining it as RF and manual focus with a compact body & lenses, I yet to see how far the mega pixel race can offer.

I guess I have the option now as to go for the M11 after it is released with a reasonably good resale value of my M10R or I can wait for the M12 if the difference between the M10R & M11 are not significant.

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32 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

As for an M, maintaining it as RF and manual focus with a compact body & lenses, I yet to see how far the mega pixel race can offer.

 

I am inclined to agree with that specific statement …. but separately, if a theoretical and much improved Visoflex came out, then perhaps the M can work well at higher megapixels. 

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3 hours ago, jimmielx said:

I purchased my second hand Leica M9-P from Red Dot Cameras on 25 September 2012, it cost £3599. As I recall the camera, with several others, had been listed at £1000 more prior to the announcement of the Leica M (240) a few days earlier and was dropped following it.

I'm not sure if you'd call this a crash, but certainly the second hand price of the previous model fell at a retailer following the announcement of a new model.

It was great for me as it just about enabled me to be able to afford a full frame digital Leica - which remains my main camera. 

After the initial glut of second hand cameras caused by people trading-in the second hand price always rebounds a bit. The retailer wins by offering a lower trade-in price against the new model. But somebody will always get stung as prices fluctuate, but it doesn't mean everybody gets stung, and anyway a new or second hand camera will be devalued as soon as you walk out the shop with it. Few digital Leica's are collectible and none at all will outlive the supply of replacement electronic components.

As for the original premise of the M10 becoming obsolete I think you could safely say the M11 is already obsolete in the eyes of the wider world. It's not going to have Nikon or Sony users changing camera systems because it's way ahead in some vital aspect of the game. 

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I think tank is not the right word. Leica prices dont tank, they depreciate and then settle down. M8 for 1700-2000, M9 still sell for 2500, M240 for 2700-3000. In fact some have mildly raised.  So M10/p/r will have an exaggerated fall initially , then even possibly slightly uptick, and then slowly depreciate.  So yes the camera is much less than someone would have bought for new when released, but what value did some gain by using one of these cameras for 7-10 years?  If someone places no value in time spent with camera - then you just want gear.  None of these ( at least digital ) are an investment. 

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13 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

I am inclined to agree with that specific statement …. but separately, if a theoretical and much improved Visoflex came out, then perhaps the M can work well at higher megapixels. 

I had the visoflex & multi-function handgrip/finger loop on my M240 and also adapted the R tele lenses onto my M system. Since having the SL & now SL2, I've decided to keep my M10 & now M10R back to the minimalist. Not even having the half case. I use the 3rd party enlargement viewer/eyepiece over the rear LCD screen for precise focusing when I mount my M over the tripod for landscape applications.

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On 10/30/2021 at 1:37 AM, Max EPR said:

I just watched this video by Oz Yilmaz.  Oz suggests due to the "megapixel-wars" the M10's value is going to take a major price drop as soon as the M11 is released. Oz says the "M10 will be obsolete" The M10 is a great camera. The M11 needs to be significantly improved for me to consider upgrading to a M11. What is your opinion?

 

He also said the M10 is for those “who can’t afford things and that it might serve well for a while” 😂😂😂😂😂 

As far as I know both my M8 and M9P are working flawless, far from obsolete and I enjoy them very much. 

That's the problem with YouTube, anyone with a camera Becomes an eminence with something to say. 

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I dunno.

My M10s have already paid for themselves - and continue to produce income. And that doesn't even include the tax writeoffs. So at this point whatever they sell for is pure profit. ;)

And my M8 and M9 are also still "paying for themselves," now several times over, in edition-print sales, long after they were traded in. A version of "the long tail" - create something reproducible and compelling enough to sell, and one can keep selling it forever - or at least until the edition is sold out.

I don't see any diminution in print sales just because they are 10- or 18- or 24-Mpixel images. If they touch people.

Now, I suppose there are different markets (work-for-hire), where a picture only sells once, to one customer (bride, architect, fast-food chain, interior decorator), and the extra detail of 40 or 60Mp may be a selling point, because the pictures will wallpaper an office, or 10000 modestly-priced motel rooms, or some such.

My wedding work was all back in the pre-digital era, but no bride I worked with insisted on "medium format" or "4x5" quality (what passed for extra Mpixels back then).

If they hired me, they wanted the casual, journalistic 35mm "coverage" of their wedding moments - and knew that's what I'd deliver.

...............

Anyway, I'll trade in my M10s for Mxxs if and when I see a compelling reason. It won't be megapixels, because I know my market. It might be something else the M11 offers, or I might wait for an M11-S, or the M12.

Edited by adan
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