Review of Leitz 800mm f/6.3 Telyt-S Lens Part 2

[zeitz]

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The Leitz 800mm f/6.3 Telyt-S lens occasionally is discussed on this sub-forum. A notable discussion is in this posting / comment string: 

 

In a previous posting I compared the Leitz 800mm f/6.3 Telyt-S lens to the Canon 800mm f/8.0 S-Set lens (a cemented doublet achromat) and to the Nikon 800mm f/8.0 Nikkor-P lens (a modified Ernostar/Sonnar design). Both of these were designed before Leitz lens introduced in 1972. 

 

I wanted to compare the Leitz lens to later super-telephotos produced by Nikon using special glass. (For reference on the incorporation of special glass in telephotos, by other manufacturers, Canon introduced its 300mm f/2.8 fluorite lens in 1974, Nikon introduced its first ED (Extra-low Dispersion) super-telephoto lenses in 1975, and Canon introduced its 800mm f5.6 UD (Ultra-low Dispersion) lens in 1979.) I was able to obtain a Nikon 800mm f5.6 IF-ED lens recently. I also purchased a Bausch & Lomb 800mm mirror lens. And I decided to include a Nikon 400mm f2.8 lens with 2x teleconverter. I have used this lens extensively for years with and without the teleconverter. And finally I included the Nikon 400mm f2.8 lens, cropping to an 800mm image size in Photoshop.

So to further gauge the performance of the Leitz 800mm f/6.3 Telyt, I compared it to four other 800mm lenses or imaging approaches that used the newer lens designs and were available after the Leitz lens.

The first lens is the Nikon 800mm f5.6 IF-ED Ai-S lens, introduced in 1985.

The second lens is the Nikon 400mm f2.8 ED AF-S II lens, 2001 version, with the TC-20EIII 2x teleconverter, introduced in 2009.

The third lens approach is the same Nikon 400mm f2.8 ED AF-S II lens, 2001 version, just cropping Photoshop to the same image size instead of using a teleconverter.

The fourth lens is a Bausch & Lomb 800mm f10.0 mirror lens, date unknown.

To test the lenses I used the same lens test chart (43 x 56 cm) as in the previous comparison, but remounted to achieve better flatness. The test chart was about 50 ft / 15 m from the camera focal plane. The images included a little more than just the test chart. I cropped off the outside edge so the edge won't effect the histogram. I used the same Nikon D5 because it is still the only digital camera I have that can mount all the lenses and has electronic focus confirmation. I did not use an electronic shutter release cable this time. The D5 can be set to raise the mirror with a first shutter release and then trip the shutter with a second shutter release which proved more than adequate for the support approach I used. I sampled at max aperture, f8.0 and f11.0. I made images at correct focus indicated on the ground glass and with electronic focus confirmation, and I shifted focus slightly fore and aft to insure I nailed the focus. In all cases the ground glass/electronic focus confirmation was correct. I tried the 400mm f2.8 autofocus lens without the teleconverter in both autofocus and manual focus modes, with no difference seen in the result. The 400m f2.8 lens with the teleconverter was manually focused for consistency with the Ai-S lens. I am only showing the max aperture results because the f8.0 and f11.0 results did not add any further information to the comparison.

These lenses are hard to hold steady.  Dah.  The Telyt has two tripod mounts; the Nikon lenses have only one tripod mount but are more compact lenses, being true telephotos. Instead of using two tripods for the Telyt-S, as I did previously, I used a solid work bench table. The tripod for the other lenses was a Gitzo GT4552TS carbon fiber tripod. The Gitzo is designed to hold the largest and heaviest telephoto lenses available. I used a Wimberley WH-200 gimbal head on the Gitzo tripod.

The results are attached. In addition to showing the test chart itself, I superimposed the histogram for the test chart in the lower right. Color fringing can be seen in the histograms considering shifts in the spikes for the three colors, The tightness of the black spike is representative of the sharpness of the black graphics. The image from the 400mm f2.8 Nikkor is slightly brighter; I apologize for that mistake.

The results for the professional Leitz and Nikon lenses are nearly identical. Even the cropped image from the 400mm lens without the teleconverter is nearly identical. The problem with this image processing approach is that there is little crop capability left. In fact Photoshop resampled the file to produce enough pixels to match the other files. The teleconverter approach is great and I have used it for years, but it eliminates the option to use a teleconverter with the 800mm lens for a massive 1600mm equivalent.

While one would hope the inexpensive Bausch & Lomb mirror lens might be a usable approach, the lens simply is poor. The image was so poor that it was hard to focus on the ground glass. The lens seems dimmer than f10.0. Electronic focus confirmation would not work with this lens either.

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[George Furst]

This is an amazing tour de force! I always thought of these speciality lens as too expensive and too hard to use as to be so inconvenient. I’ll never forget seeing the Leitz example and being naked over by its size! I always thought of these as prestige lenses. A way to show that your company is in the big leagues. I also remember that one company selling lens offered you a car when you purchased the Leitz example. Thank you so much for showing that these were really fine lens and not just for show. You have provided a real service. It was not an easy time for the Wetzlar company and yet they had the know how to design a truely fine piece of optic. Do we know who designed this lens? How many were produced? Where did you find your rare example? What triggered you to spend all this effort, money and time to examine and test such rare lens? 

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[zeitz]

57 minutes ago, George Furst said:

Do we know who designed this lens? How many were produced? Where did you find your rare example? What triggered you to spend all this effort, money and time to examine and test such rare lens? 

I do not know who designed the lens; Erwin Puts does not say either in his Leica Compendium.  In the first posting that I listed as a reference, Luigi presented a letter from Leica that stated 109 production lenses were made, in addition to 8 to 10 prototypes.  (In comparison Nikon made about 1300 of the 800mm f8.0 ED IF lenses, which I do not own, and about 3000 of the 800mm f5.6 ED IF lenses.)  My example came from Wetzlar Auction #2 in October 2020.  I use these super-telephotos lenses for sports photography (primarily auto racing) and for occasional nature photography.  I just had to know what works best.  The Leica Telyt is a beast to move around, but once on the right tripod is a pleasure to use because the focusing is quick and precise.  In comparison, while the Nikon IF system seems nice, the drag is not adequate for my taste.  I do not know if the drag on the Nikon IF system can be adjusted by a repairman or if the drag was better when the lens was new.  The AF-S autofocus system on the D5 is so superior that my shots with correct focus are about 99%; the focus speed matches the speed of my eye.  I can't do anywhere near that well with manual focus.  When I sell the lenses off to someone else, I expect to recover all the money I spent and probably more.

[derleicaman]

I remember the first time I saw the 800 Telyt was at my first Leica Schule in 1973. It was an intimidating beast. We put a Leicina Special on it and made it a Super Super Tele lens. Camera shake was out of control.

After seeing it in real life, never had a desire to own one. I do have the Telyt 400 and 560 lenses with the Televit. At least those lenses are usable on a monopod.

[Pyrogallol]

In a similar thread I recalled looking through that lens at the Wetzlar Leica school in the early 70’s.