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1930 leica I- pretty beat up. Collectible?


jaques

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I’ve got a chance to buy a Leica I- I think it dates to 1931. Look pretty beat up - like someone sanded it down- would this have been black originally? its maybe missing some part shutter button looks wrong… Are these very collectible?

 

 

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Edited by jaques
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the top has four screws holding the top to the body, this means that is is an early camer. It is also an eleven o’clock lens but missing the hockey stick for some reason. Yes the early cameras are relatively rare. What I do not understand is that it is not covered with shiny black lacquer, as of most cameras of this period. It also looks like it is chrome plated like the later standards of the time. Either that or it has had the finish sanded or wire brushed off the camera body. I would be very careful because all of these missing elements really bring down the value. Early, yes, a good example, no. Also what is happening to the shutter release location. Value, not too much in my opinion.

Edited by George Furst
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Black and chrom mix? Why not Brass chasdis? It looks more like Aluminium Body than Brass. Shutter release Button is missing. 

And those strange scratches !?

I wouldn't buey it. There are also honest Leica I where everything is right.

Edited by Reini
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someone has definitely crudely stripped off the black paint I think they use course sandpaper or a wire brush. Judging by the many, many repairs to the leather case- and the state of the camera- I think this is more of a treasured and much used, abused camera- rather than anything deliberately dodgy. 
 

I might make a low bid- see if I get lucky. 

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Somebody thought the chipped black looked ugly, so they set out to make it even uglier.

The scratches are where the paint was rubbed off with coarse sandpaper and then I think it's been given a thin plate of nickel. To the left of the accessory shoe on the top plate I think you can see signs of bad surface preparation for the nickel coating where it is flaking, and also possibly a few areas where the brass is showing through. Could be a very early restoration.

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2 hours ago, 250swb said:

The scratches are where the paint was rubbed off with coarse sandpaper and then I think it's been given a thin plate of nickel. 

Ok, interesting, because I was thinking, ‘why IS this body silver?’, after the other replies… It looks like aluminum, or maybe steel, but apparently that doesn’t make sense- it must be brass… it just seems odd that someone would sand the paint off so crudely, but then bother to nickel plate? But I’m thinking you’ve figured it out. It must be brass underneath. 

Edited by jaques
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What condition is the lens in, is the glass reasonably clear? That might be the best part of the camera, converted from hockey stick to no-infinity catch version but still in the original mount with the flat top. Has it been standardised with the “0” markings on the mount and lens? Does the shutter run?

Edited by Pyrogallol
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This is a I Model A from 1930 with the hockey stick removed. It seems like someone went for a crude chrome look, but the process failed. Don't forget that chrome was highly prized at one time and chrome cameras were more expensive than ones with black paint.

Most of my I Model As still have their original black paint, or most of it, but two have none. The first is SN 1661 which has some non original parts. I have discussed this one with Jim Lager and he felt that a previous owner had stripped it down for a repaint or chrome job, but then decided to sell it instead. I am happy with it the way it is. All other features, including the lens, are correct for an early camera with an Elmar. Jerzy and I also discussed the camera and lens. 

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This one, SN 9035, has been nickel plated to quite a high standard and it is a lovely looking camera 'in the flesh'. I have seen other examples like this, but none that are as nice.

 

As for my other 6 or 7 original black paint I Model As, quite a few of them have had replacement parts fitted which, according to von Einem, was often done by the factory on service returns without asking the customer. The most common ones involved the shutter button and the depth of field scale. 

The camera in the first post above looks like it was crudely chromed or just painted silver. There is nothing wrong with a chrome I Model A. After all, Henri Cartier Bresson had one. In this case I would not regard the camera shown above as being particularly valuable, but it would have some value. The lens looks like it is chrome, but I have never seen a chrome 11 O'Clock 50mm Elmar before. Maybe the apparent colour is caused by the lighting. 

William 

 

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Did Leitz nickel plate the brass before painting?  I read somewhere about that.  In places it looks like they sanded the paint off a little too aggressive and got down to brass below the nickel....e.g., on shutter speed housing.  But scratches are so deep elsewhere.  Can see that they left the cold shoe on while sanding, the black paint remains in screws.  Curious. And a shame.  And where's the "I" in Leitz?  I'm not sure it was sanded off.

I wouldn't buy it unless very discounted.

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6 hours ago, rfaspen said:

Did Leitz nickel plate the brass before painting?  I read somewhere about that. 

Leitz just painted brass black, they didn't plate it first. But the camera in question has been plated after a previous surface finish has been crudely removed, so fairly safe to assume it was black paint that was removed. OK it could be possible that a chrome finish was removed and then re-plated if it should have become ugly enough, but as the process of undoing ugly plating is exactly the reverse of plating, you just reverse the poles, it's odd that anybody who can plate something would choose to abrade chrome off with sandpaper and not do it chemically. Plating and especially in nickel is a home process, nothing scary about it, and a lot of people in the past, in the days of people making things, would have known how to do it.

Edited by 250swb
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On 10/24/2021 at 10:40 AM, rfaspen said:

I think I found my reference.  They said nickel plate over brass then chrome plate over that.  Not paint.

 

 

 

That is correct. Before chrome plating became widespread at Leitz, and in general in the 1930's, nickel plating was standard practice. If you look at early screwmount Leicas, the "furniture" of the camera was nickel plated. You can tell it is nickel plating as it has a warmer appearance to it. Later, chrome plating became popular and more common for things like car bumpers, etc. The chrome plating is much more durable than nickel plating, however the nickel plating remains as an intermediate step in the process.

As an aside, chrome plating is considered a strategic process for use in weaponry. That is the reason why later in the war, Leitz started producing cameras in the gray paint finish.

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On 10/23/2021 at 11:49 AM, Reini said:

Black and chrom mix? Why not Brass chasdis? It looks more like Aluminium Body than Brass. Shutter release Button is missing. 

And those strange scratches !?

I wouldn't buey it. There are also honest Leica I where everything is right.

Me too ... I think is to be seen as a "for parts" item (can be that the shutter is perfect... ) of no significant value, no fine look for display , no way as a collectible. 

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