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Ninja V necessary for 4k run n gun?


bpLeica

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With the new firmware and internal recording capabilities, I am shooting a project that needs a lot of agility and compactness. I am considering ditching the entire cage/Ninja contraption and forgo the security of dual channel sound recording so I can have a very light and agile setup in a difficult run and gun situation. 

The question is is there any image quality compromise shooting cine4k/24 all I in L-log 400MB just internally and not on the Ninja?

I ran a test and the files coming out of the ninja were recognized as prores and not out of the internal SD?

image quality is very important but this is a very tight situation and I need to have as little gear as possible... even one battery extra is too much.

Post in DaVinci resolve.

All advice is greatly appreciated... 

Edited by bpLeica
updated information for clarity
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I think you have answered you question already.

If you can't have it there is no point in bringing it. the internal recordings in L-LOG are in h264 and H265 .mov files. It is very good quality. The compressed files use less space but will be harder to preview and edit on the machine, in some cases proxy files are better.

the viewfinder is very good and it can be done well. External monitors are better on some angles, low and high. Focus peeking is better on Atomos than internal.

Davinci works well in L-LOG files out of camera, you just need to buy the Studio version . For editing is best to set up a Rec.2020 Project

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13 hours ago, bpLeica said:

I ran a test and the files coming out of the ninja were recognized as prores and not out of the internal SD?

That's because the internal files are H264, not ProRes.

 

13 hours ago, bpLeica said:

The question is is there any image quality compromise shooting cine4k/24 all I in L-log 400MB just internally and not on the Ninja?

There is, but not much. The internal files are slightly more compressed than they would be in ProRes 422. The compromise is more on the workflow side of the equation. SD cards are less reassuring than SSDs, so make sure you get good ones and treat them kindly: format in-camera, never delete individual files, swap them before they are 100% full, back them up as soon as possible, don't re-format until you have verified at least two backups.

Resolve Studio should be OK with H264, as long as your hardware can keep-up (it's harder to decode than ProRes). Resolve can create proxies in the background ("generate optimized media"), so you'll only notice performance issues up-front, when you first access a clip.

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Thank you all for the perfect replies and guidance.

I am indeed running the studio version of Davinci on a loaded Mac Pro.

The other question is (probably obvious) should I use the new H.265 settings instead?

Again this is a very important project with a one time only chance at capturing important footage. 

FYI... I have tried all available SD options and for me the best performance came from Kingston Canvas React Plus at 300MB/s... I have shot over 200 hours of footage without a glitch.

My only concern now is that I am losing the extra sound track without the Ninja.. Normally I connect a Lav wireless to the Ninja on one track and use the camera's internal (which is great with Leica's btw) as a backup, ambiance track... obviously no solution there as I can't schlepp yet another sound recorder with me.

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I DON'T THINK YOU CAN PICK H.264 OR H.265, when you record to SD card and you pick the Video format, the camera will do it fo you.

If you want to test the quality of H.265 compression vs ProRes you can film some trees with leafs blowing in the wind, in this case you may see differences .

 

I use ProGrade 256 with w250MS/s r300MS/s they work well.
I think the biggest challenge is going to be power with this camera. you need batteries and chargers. I have battery banks and USB charger on the road.

Sound can be solved.
The tentacle track E lav recorder are fantastic, internal recording at 32-BIT FLOATING-POINT.

the other solution that I have been using are the Rode wireless Go II , 2 mics recorder on receiver with 2 mono channels. you can do a boom mic and a lav with it. the record hours internal but not at 32bit. with the supplied cable you can feed the 2 mics into and SL2 and monitor true camera. 

The preamps in camera are not great, I set them to -12  and boost in post, and if you hear problems just replace audio from the recorder.

 

 

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The answer to your question is quite simple: 

  • If you need are larger screen for precise monitoring and want 50/60p in 10 bit 4.2.2 >> Ninja V & Cage
  • Since you cannot even take another battery: You have your answer, Leica SL2-S it is! For the codec I recommend two options:
    • For moviemaking, i.e. filming shorter sequences: 24/25p 400 Mbit/s 4.2.2. All-I (H.264)
    • For long static recordings, i.e. interviews, concerts, etc.: 24/25p 150 Mbit/s 4.2.2. Long-GOP (H.264)
    • You can also record 50p and obove in 200 Mbit/s. 4.20 Long-GOP (H.265), if you need it

The quality difference between 400 Mbit/s All-I H.264 and 700 Mbit/s ProRes HQ is negligable. H.264 is simply more efficiently compressed but comes at a cost of needing higher computing power to be edited. 

 

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@bpLeica I ran with both options SL2+Ninja or SL2 naked. You can be confident with the internal files in ALL-I the quality is great and you can convert it later to ProRes if you must. Using the EVF for filming is wonderful with IBIS for reportage and run/gun as you descrbibe. For the sound, a shotgun mic on top like the great Rode Video Mic NTG allows you to have a split recording at 2 different levels (0 and -20bB) on your left and right soundtrack. It can save you in post if you have unexpected loud noise.

If you like shooting low however it's nice to have a top handle.... my cage is a half cage and doest take too much space....

@Photoworksare you sure the rode go 2 is not 32 bit float? it says the contrary wherever I saw... Very

I have used the Rode Go (1) with the Rode Videomic NTG it makes for a wonderful wireless boom mic solution.

I would defitively advise against not having a second battery in your pant's pocket, there is no reasonable way to justify running out of juice if it's such an important thing you are doing.

The kingston Canvas 300mbs are wonderful SD cards indeed. Always have 2 of the same type if you can in the camera.

Edited by Slender
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1 hour ago, Slender said:

@Photoworksare you sure the rode go 2 is not 32 bit float? it says the contrary wherever I saw... Very

yep. you can export 32bit from Rode Central. but it is not any better then any other recording in recovering clipped data. if you record distortion , you will have distortion on export. It is better to set the gain correctly.

the Tentacle is crazy how you can change it to anything, just like RAW data. but you can not monitor unless you buy EU version.. US has licensing conflict.

 

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