My message to Leica AG in regards to CL!

[amd]

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Currently there aren't any TL lenses listed on Leica's website: https://leica-camera.com/de-DE/fotografie/objektive/cl-tl The page only displays accessories like filters. 

[Kim Dahl]

13 minutes ago, amd said:

Currently there aren't any TL lenses listed on Leica's website: https://leica-camera.com/de-DE/fotografie/objektive/cl-tl The page only displays accessories like filters. 

Sad😢

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[lct]

45 minutes ago, amd said:

Currently there aren't any TL lenses listed on Leica's website: https://leica-camera.com/de-DE/fotografie/objektive/cl-tl The page only displays accessories like filters. 

They are here:

https://leica-camera.com/en-int/photography/lenses/cl-tl

[Louis]

According to the cousin of my neighbor’s maid who has a brother dating a girl in the Wetzlar janitors team, there is still a large unsold CL stock  that they are trying to get rid of before taking any decision about the continuation of this line!

This is where we are now with the almighty “Leica”! …

[dkCambridgeshire]

1 hour ago, Louis said:

According to the cousin of my neighbor’s maid who has a brother dating a girl in the Wetzlar janitors team, there is still a large unsold CL stock  that they are trying to get rid of before taking any decision about the continuation of this line!

This is where we are now with the almighty “Leica”! …

The CL has "been a good seller" from its 2017 launch ... 4 years ago 

Edited November 20, 2021 by dkCambridgeshire

[Louis]

2 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

The CL has "been a good seller" from its 2017 launch ... 4 years ago 

This is exactly my impression. As long as I can remember, CL has been a very popular camera. Another reason why this decision, if true, doesn't make any sense!.... If Leica needs some cash; they can't have it with expensive M and SL models, but with affordable cameras like ASP-C ones.

[elgenper]

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4 hours ago, Louis said:

According to the cousin of my neighbor’s maid who has a brother dating a girl in the Wetzlar janitors team.....

Doesn´t this strike you as just a little bit "tongue-in-cheek"?  I´d be wary of treating the subsequent passage about a large unsold CL stock as hard facts in this context.  Still, the ads and web page from my local Leica dealer indicates that he´s avoiding being caught out with stocks of current CL or TL gear; most of it is marked as "not in stock" now.  So, something is about to happen....

Edited November 20, 2021 by elgenper

[Kim Dahl]

Then it would be dignified and great if Leica told its customers - who have loyally - bought into the APSC system - what should happen next.
 

[Stuart Richardson]

2 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

Then it would be dignified and great if Leica told its customers - who have loyally - bought into the APSC system - what should happen next.
 

Take it from an R and S user. They are not going to say anything until it is all gone and they sell out all existing stock. The S system has not had a new lens since 2014. The S3 is a new sensor in a body from 2015. Once they extract as much as they can from it, they will just shut it down. At that point they might say something, but it may well be just to say they are not going to service them anymore. This is just how companies work in the 21st century. Transparency does not help them. If they do open up and say that they are done with them, then the remaining stock will stay unsold as buyers will not want to get into a "dead" system. Any categorical statement they make also hamstrings them to that if they decide to do something later. Perhaps they decide subsequently for various reasons that they do want to make a new body, because of some changes in the market. If they already said that they were discontinued, it is awkward of them to turn around and say, "actually, here's a new body", because by declaring it dead a lot of users might have sold their lenses and bodies. So it seems like the general practice here is to just say nothing. As a user, it is probably better practice to look at the lineup and make your decisions...asking questions like, "Is there any development visible?" "What does the market look like for this sector in general?" "Where does Leica seem to focus its marketing and releases?"

[lct]

Leica will do it when they are ready as usual.

[Michael Markey]

41 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Take it from an R and S user. They are not going to say anything until it is all gone and they sell out all existing stock. The S system has not had a new lens since 2014. The S3 is a new sensor in a body from 2015. Once they extract as much as they can from it, they will just shut it down. At that point they might say something, but it may well be just to say they are not going to service them anymore. This is just how companies work in the 21st century. Transparency does not help them. If they do open up and say that they are done with them, then the remaining stock will stay unsold as buyers will not want to get into a "dead" system. Any categorical statement they make also hamstrings them to that if they decide to do something later. Perhaps they decide subsequently for various reasons that they do want to make a new body, because of some changes in the market. If they already said that they were discontinued, it is awkward of them to turn around and say, "actually, here's a new body", because by declaring it dead a lot of users might have sold their lenses and bodies. So it seems like the general practice here is to just say nothing. As a user, it is probably better practice to look at the lineup and make your decisions...asking questions like, "Is there any development visible?" "What does the market look like for this sector in general?" "Where does Leica seem to focus its marketing and releases?"

That sums it up unfortunately .

Look at the history.

The only model which is given due consideration is the M ,everything else is collateral damage and always has been

There appears to be a absence of any long term strategy for the other models in the Leica stable of the kind Canon Nikon and Sony have for their models .

Looking at the dealers adverts it seems to me that existing stock is being carefully run down in a managed way.

They`re a small company competing against much larger outfits .

You have to use your own judgement .

[jaapv]

22 hours ago, Louis said:

According to the cousin of my neighbor’s maid who has a brother dating a girl in the Wetzlar janitors team, there is still a large unsold CL stock  that they are trying to get rid of before taking any decision about the continuation of this line!

This is where we are now with the almighty “Leica”! …

Leica may be many things, but almighty it is not...

[cpclee]

When Canon ended the FD mount after its 20 year history it pissed a lot of people off but that survival move proved far sighted.  Say what we will about the demise of the Leica R but it did survive a 45 year history.  

I expect many DSLR systems to die in the coming years with the S system possibly among them.  It will be awful but we have seen shorter lived system.  The Contax 645 and Contax N for example each lived just 5 and 6 years.  

If the CL is discontinued we still have a vibrant L mount ecosystem of cameras to use the TL lenses on.  I'm okay with that.

Edited November 21, 2021 by cpclee

[jaapv]

Yes, but I would prefer to use them on a sensor that has at least 24 MP and is less huge than the SL and Pana S cameras.

[lct]

1 hour ago, cpclee said:

If the CL is discontinued we still have a vibrant L mount ecosystem of cameras to use the TL lenses on.  I'm okay with that.

Leica SL and Panasonic FF cameras are way too big for me and even the Panasonic S5 is bulkier than current Sony A7 cameras. Would a copy of the Sigma FP be compact enough? W/o EVF yes but with EVF it would be larger than the CL by a significant margin. Now some good people here were prepared to accept a slightly larger CL2 if it has IBIS so perhaps Leica could find a solution for them. Wait and see but be patient folks Leica is Leica.

Edited November 21, 2021 by lct

[dkCambridgeshire]

14 minutes ago, lct said:

Leica SL and Panasonic FF cameras are way too big for me and even the Panasonic S5 is bulkier than current Sony A7 cameras. Would a copy of the Sigma FP be compact enough? W/o EVF yes but with EVF it would be larger than the CL by a significant margin. Now some good people here were prepared to accept a slightly larger CL2 if it has IBIS so perhaps Leica could find a solution for them. Wait and see but be patient folks Leica is Leica.

Not a matter of 'wait and see' ... more a matter of Leica deciding maybe 2 or 3 years ago to design a CL successor with all new technology ... does not happen overnight ... takes at least 2 years to design and develop a new camera ... using state of the art components / technologies much of which are third party and require commitment to buy in the numbers required to make it a cost effective project ... Suppliers likely require minimum orders of tens of thousands of components ... especially if 'tweeked' to e.g .Leica specification. 

The CL was a reaction to the unpopularity of the T/TL/TL2 ... CL used same sensor as TL2 and likely much of its other internals and technology ... so likely would not have taken too long to develop compared to an 'all new' design. Camera technology has moved on considerably since the CL was released.

If there is a CL2 it likely has very little in common with the CL ... and a CL2 in a crowded market needs high sales to make it a successful proposition. The market is not just Leica Forum member enthusiasts .. requires many thousands of other customers worldwide.   

[lct]

Wait and see Leica's decision that is already taken i guess but Leica will do it at its own pace as usual.

[Louis]

2 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Not a matter of 'wait and see' ... more a matter of Leica deciding maybe 2 or 3 years ago to design a CL successor with all new technology ... does not happen overnight ... takes at least 2 years to design and develop a new camera ... using state of the art components / technologies much of which are third party and require commitment to buy in the numbers required to make it a cost effective project ... Suppliers likely require minimum orders of tens of thousands of components ... especially if 'tweeked' to e.g .Leica specification. 

The CL was a reaction to the unpopularity of the T/TL/TL2 ... CL used same sensor as TL2 and likely much of its other internals and technology ... so likely would not have taken too long to develop compared to an 'all new' design. Camera technology has moved on considerably since the CL was released.

If there is a CL2 it likely has very little in common with the CL ... and a CL2 in a crowded market needs high sales to make it a successful proposition. The market is not just Leica Forum member enthusiasts .. requires many thousands of other customers worldwide.   

It’s all true. The question here was how long to keep the users in the dark, which would cause for many a significant lost or waist of money.  Out of courtesy for Leica CL users, it would be a nice think to give us a little hint about deciding for our future equipment.

I know; I know; theorically, camera makers don’t look it that way, but I was hoping that a small company like Leica would be a little different. The Leica users consider themselves like a family and expect a better treatment from their favorite company. After all, it is us who really make Leica what it is. Without us, Leica would not be “Leica” ! 
 

PS: As for myself, I know that if Leica ends the APS-C line, I would never buy any Leica camera or lens anymore; not even Panasonic/Leica.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Louis

[Kim Dahl]

And if we are to remain enthusiastic in the system - and we must help carry a system forward.
I do not want to get into a big camera system. I'm better covered in there. Now with Canon R. I would rather stay in the Leica system but become more and more in doubt. I'm mega frustrated about that.
I understand that if a system does not make a profit then you stop production.
But a store probably doesn’t stay open on the weekends either to make a profit. But to keep the service high so people also shop in THAT store the rest of the week.
Leica has without CL is big hole in their line - both in terms of starting price for a system AND in terms of size of system camera.
It covered CL nicely.
I would continue to be enthusiastic in apsc if only I knew that Leica is still developing on it. OR develop a FF ala CL in + 47 MP ...

Edited November 21, 2021 by Kim Dahl

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[Michael Markey]

50 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

And if we are to remain enthusiastic in the system - and we must help carry a system forward.
I do not want to get into a big camera system. I'm better covered in there. Now with Canon R. I would rather stay in the Leica system but become more and more in doubt. I'm mega frustrated about that.
I understand that if a system does not make a profit then you stop production.
But a store probably doesn’t stay open on the weekends either to make a profit. But to keep the service high so people also shop in THAT store the rest of the week.
Leica has without CL is big hole in their line - both in terms of starting price for a system AND in terms of size of system camera.
It covered CL nicely.
I would continue to be enthusiastic in apsc if only I knew that Leica is still developing on it. OR develop a FF ala CL in + 47 MP ...

Whatever you do don`t abandon the Canon R is all I would say .

A dependable make with a well thought out and extensive range of lenses .

I jumped out of Canon to Sony because Canon ,at that time , didn`t have a mirror less body .

Both though are solid and dependable platforms whereas Leica have all the attributes we know and love but tends to be .... more ephemeral (other than the M).

You can form your own analogy .