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My message to Leica AG in regards to CL!


Louis
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14 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I make prints with my CL no difference with my former M10. Just like @jaapv said only acuity and resolution count. 

 

My 24Mp CL prints are very hard to distinguish from my 47Mp Q2 prints. Mostly I print at 10 x 15 inches. Now my Q2M prints are at a noticeably higher level. Few amateurs print larger on a regular basis, and I am confident that the vast majority of CL and M users are amateurs.

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1 hour ago, robgo2 said:

My 24Mp CL prints are very hard to distinguish from my 47Mp Q2 prints. Mostly I print at 10 x 15 inches. Now my Q2M prints are at a noticeably higher level. Few amateurs print larger on a regular basis, and I am confident that the vast majority of CL and M users are amateurs.

You clearly know this but it is worth repeating:

Large size prints are not the same as high quality prints

High resolution prints are not the same as high quality photographs

Technically excellent prints are not the same as interesting photographs.

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2 hours ago, robgo2 said:

My 24Mp CL prints are very hard to distinguish from my 47Mp Q2 prints. Mostly I print at 10 x 15 inches. Now my Q2M prints are at a noticeably higher level. Few amateurs print larger on a regular basis, and I am confident that the vast majority of CL and M users are amateurs.

It was long ago determined that 10mp is sufficient for prints up to poster size provided the pixels are high quality and I've found that to be true.  If you see today prints made from the M8 or the DMR, both of which are 10mp, they aren't going to look shabby.

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On 11/5/2021 at 6:45 PM, dkCambridgeshire said:

Leica TL lenses are made in Far East ... not Germany.

In 2014, for the Leica 'T' system, four Leica T lenses were announced; in 2015 to 2021 only 3 additional TL lenses were announced and manufactured. Just 7 TL lenses released in 7 years ... and nothing longer than 202mm FF equivalent ... hardly an APS-C 'system' of lenses. I had two Leica TL2 cameras ... one replaced under warranty ... neither would  consistently work with Leica R lenses via an R to L adapter. I gave up on the TL2 and Leica refunded me the ££. After my frustrating experiences with the TL2  I was not convinced that the CL would work reliably with long focus Leica R lenses  ... so I did not try or buy the CL.  A friend bought a CL ... in his opinion it's years behind other manufacturers' ICL APS-C offings because it does not have IBIS. 

I still use my Leica T ... with the 11-23mm and legacy lenses 

Perhaps you should seek out a better class of friends.

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After all the discussions we had in this thread and all the negative rumors, today I took my CL for a walk and enjoyed it more than ever before! Once again, I realized  how wonderful this little camera is and wished that all the bad rumors are only rumors! If not; if Leica really decides to end the continuation of CL, it would be a grave mistake and whoever is behind this stupid decision should be fired from Leica AG immediately! 🤗

Amen!....

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On 11/7/2021 at 6:43 PM, Louis said:

After all the discussions we had in this thread and all the negative rumors, today I took my CL for a walk and enjoyed it more than ever before! Once again, I realized  how wonderful this little camera is and wished that all the bad rumors are only rumors! If not; if Leica really decides to end the continuation of CL, it would be a grave mistake and whoever is behind this stupid decision should be fired from Leica AG immediately! 🤗

Amen!....

FWIW, I did talk to the nice gentlemen who sold me the CL at a Leica Dealer and he seemed to think its demise would leave a hole in their lineup and thus be non-sensical.  My gut is still telling me that the "solution" will come from elsewhere in the L-mount alliance.  As long as I have somewhere to screw on my lenses in 10 years, I'll be OK.

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4 hours ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

FWIW, I did talk to the nice gentlemen who sold me the CL at a Leica Dealer and he seemed to think its demise would leave a hole in their lineup and thus be non-sensical.  My gut is still telling me that the "solution" will come from elsewhere in the L-mount alliance.  As long as I have somewhere to screw on my lenses in 10 years, I'll be OK.

I think APS-C L mount lenses are here to stay.  As to APS-C bodies it's harder to say especially if they start coming out with very compact FF L mount bodies at a price point to make APS-C bodies moot. 

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7 hours ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

FWIW, I did talk to the nice gentlemen who sold me the CL at a Leica Dealer and he seemed to think its demise would leave a hole in their lineup and thus be non-sensical.  My gut is still telling me that the "solution" will come from elsewhere in the L-mount alliance.  As long as I have somewhere to screw on my lenses in 10 years, I'll be OK.

I think that you make a good point 

Look at Leica price range. Without CL it will look strange


 

Right now you can get a made in Germany Leica at 2995€ with lens. 
Imagine without the CL ? Starting price will be 5290€ with the Q2. 
It will be crazy. 

Edited by nicci78
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Leica has a clear upgrade path from Panasonic rebranded 1 inch and cropped m4/3 compact cameras -> APS-C mirrorless system -> fixed lens Full frame -> 24x36 mirrorless system 

Without the CL the gap will be huge from the D-Lux 7 to the Q2 : +4070€ ! 

Edited by nicci78
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7 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Leica has a clear upgrade path from Panasonic rebranded 1 inch and cropped m4/3 compact cameras -> APS-C mirrorless system -> fixed lens Full frame -> 24x36 mirrorless system 

Without the CL the gap will be huge from the D-Lux 7 to the Q2 : +4070€ ! 

I would not be surprised if Panasonic abandons everything fixed lens as part of a survival strategy that keeps micro 4/3 alive a bit longer, until full frame takes over for both video and photo ( they have no APS-C, so there is no middle ground as m4/3 falls away )

Edited by FrozenInTime
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More APS-C L mount offerings being released all the time. Doesn’t feel to me like this product line is dead in the water…

Yes, I am aware this company is not in the L mount alliance and therefore privy to inside information.

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2 hours ago, ruskkyle said:

More APS-C L mount offerings being released all the time. Doesn’t feel to me like this product line is dead in the water…

Yes, I am aware this company is not in the L mount alliance and therefore privy to inside information.

Agree.  I still hope.  Thoughtful if the CL line stops.  You actually only hear good things about the system.  I think the same.  I think it's true they have not sold very many APSC.  But such a good product can be sold.  I'm sure of that.  CL is not comparable to a mobile phone.  It must simply be a marketing and branding  who have gone completely wrong.

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15 hours ago, ruskkyle said:

More APS-C L mount offerings being released all the time. Doesn’t feel to me like this product line is dead in the water…

Yes, I am aware this company is not in the L mount alliance and therefore privy to inside information.

You guys keep forgetting that these brands also develop for other lens mounts. All they have to do to sell in L mount is swap the lens mount, and that costs nothing. This lens was NOT developed for L mount, it was developed for all APS-C bodies. They sell it even in M43 mount!

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2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

You guys keep forgetting that these brands also develop for other lens mounts. All they have to do to sell in L mount is swap the lens mount, and that costs nothing. This lens was NOT developed for L mount, it was developed for all APS-C bodies. They sell it even in M43 mount!

I’m not forgetting anything - merely observing.

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I wonder if Leica.com is going to remove this page  (following screen shot) if someone in Leica AG is going to take the ridiculous decision of not continuing the CL (APS-C) system! 🤔

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6 minutes ago, Louis said:

I wonder if Leica.com is going to remove this page  (following screen shot) if someone in Leica AG is going to take the ridiculous decision of not continuing the CL (APS-C) system! 🤔

That's my point - if the decision to stop - and there are so many rumors as there are now - that APSC will stop and Leica does NOT disprove it - then it's misleading marketing. 

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