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🤔 28f2 Summicron really $4,000 better than Voigtlander? 🙄


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I own both the 28mm Ultron Asph II and Summicron Asph II. I am selling the Leica lens because the Voigtländer is sharper across the frame and has smoother bokeh in the central region of the frame. Wide open it has more vignetting and less smooth bokeh in the outer region than the Summicron though. Stopped down to f/4 or more, the Ultron II has less vignetting. It is also smaller (39mm filter versus 46mm). If the price was the same, I would still prefer the Voigtländer. In other words,

M-mount Voigtländer lenses have always been a relevant topic of discussion in this forum.

Does anyone on this forum who complains about gear actually use it?  I have taken excellent photos with my CV lenses.  I have taken excellent photos with my leica lenses.  I have taken garbage photos with both.  Which do I like better?  depends on the subject, light, etc.  All of this equipment is better than what people used 50 years ago and there were good photos 50 years ago (in fact, my most used lens is from 1958). When someone asks what something is worth it depends on what you like a

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14 minutes ago, lct said:

Both are focused on the same point. The hornets nest :eek: at the top left corner.

Field curvature probably explains it. If you check the bush with a few red flowers in the lower center of the image and the branches just above and behind it, it's quite obvious that the Ultron is focused further away than the Summicron. 

Edited by LarsHP
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34 minutes ago, LarsHP said:

Field curvature probably explains it. If you check the bush with a few red flowers in the lower center of the image and the branches just above and behind it, it's quite obvious that the Ultron is focused further away than the Summicron. 

I don't understand what you mean sorry. All i can say is i focused both pics on this nest:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Sony-A7r2-mod-Leica-282-v2/i-C43SMC4/0/803182b4/L/DSC04059_crop-L.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Sony-A7r2-mod-Leica-282-v2/i-WF3QVnN/0/7025b459/L/DSC04060_crop-L.jpg

 

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Just a thought but on a 24 by 16 inch print of a pretty landscape taken at f8  would most people or anybody notice any difference between these lenses.

1] leica 28mm f2 summicrom asph 1 

2] leica 28mm f2 summicrom asph 2

3] voigtlander 28 mm f2 ultron 2

4] zeiss biogon f2.8

5] leica 28mm f2.8 version 3 

6] leica 28mm f2.8 version 4 

7] leica 28mm f2.8 asph 1

8]leica 28mm f2.8 asph 2 

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6 minutes ago, lct said:

Check here. The Summicron has focus closer in this part of the image.

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Those are two different lenses. They don't behave the same way necessarily. Also i was shooting handheld and IBIS was not on so i may have moved more or less i have no idea. All i can say is i focused on the same hornets nest. There is only one in my garden fortunately... 

Edited by lct
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7 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

As someone who’s probably  about to be charged what a 50/1.5 costs new for a CLA on a five old lux ASPH I’m seriously questioning my original purchasing decision… plus the Lux weight does annoy me a bit…

I'm interested to know what needs servicing on a 5 year old lens and how it might cost so much for the work?  In the UK I would send it to Newton Ellis or Aperture and the cost would be £150-250 depending upon what needs to be done.

Totally agree about the weight though.  50mm is not my normal choice of focal length so a Summicron or the Nokton would do me.  The only 50 I currently own is the adapted f/2,5 Color Skopar LTM lens

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5 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I never heard anybody at Ferrari claiming it's a luxury car, but I'm sure we all agree on its definition, don't we? Or Chanel, Louis Vuitton or whatever other brand. It's the market in which you operate that defines you. 

Anyway, reposting the link. It's Leica itself promoting its brand as a luxury and lifestyle brand. And this time with quotes from the website. I'm highlighting the catchwords for you.

https://www.leicastoreamsterdam.nl/lifestyle/

"Living a certain lifestyle is in many aspects a very personal thing. Making the Leica brand part of yours can be achieved in various ways. Wether you opt for Leica branded accessoires from the Leica Boutique, the exclusive 0.95 Collection or certain apparel, the choice is yours and yours only. In many ways the lifestyle section offers a selection of exclusive products that uncompromisingly reflect and carry forward the unique Leica brand personality, that may suite your lifestyle as well."

"The Leica Boutique features brand accessories with a selection of exclusive products that uncompromisingly reflect and carry forward the unique Leica brand personality. Leica brand followers will find everything their hearts could possibly desire. Explore this exclusive product universe and discover the enormous variety of Leica brand accessories. "

Now tell me what "Unique brand personality" above has to do with photography.

Also don't forget partnerships with other luxury brands like Hermes and Ermenegildo Zegna.

https://leica-store.com.au/leicazegna

"Photography meets fashion. Discover the collection of high-end camera bags and accessories, developed by Zegna's Art Director, Alessandro Sartori. Designed to make you feel at one with your equipment."

"Re-invent the way you carry your Leica: a combination of modern, luxury tailoring and unique craftsmanship. For elegant, self-confident photographers, the holster was developed to suit a modern outfit, and underlines the iconic design of a Leica. Manufactured in the most refined veal leather using the PelleTessuta™ weaving technique, the holster is defined by a unique, luxurious aesthetic."

"This cross-body bag reflects a new approach to luxury, craftsmanship and refinement. The functional Insta-pack is another modern way to keep your Leica with you at all times. The bag is perfect for a compact camera and all your daily essentials: smartphone, wallet etc. Manufactured in the most refined veal leather using the PelleTessuta™ technique, the Insta-pack is defined by a unique and luxurious aesthetic."

and here's the press release of the M9 Hermes. I'm trimming it for readability

Solms, Germany (May 10, 2012) - Leica Camera AG presents a new limited edition: the Leica M9-P “Edition Hermès”. [cut] this camera is the third in a line of premium special editions of the Leica M-System to be created in collaboration with the renowned Parisian house. The Leica M9-P “Edition Hermès” is being offered in a strictly limited edition. The exclusive numbers, unique product design and premium finishing with numerous extras make this a truly special edition in every respect.

[cut]. These details distinguish the cameras from the standard version of the Leica M9-P and emphasize the unique status of the limited edition. [cut]

FYI the Hermes cost was 50.000$

It also applies to the binoculars line

https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/used/products/used-leica-ultravid-8x32-hd-plus-edition-hermes-035-111?variant=39543930880131

The Ultravid 8 x 32 HD-PLUS ‘Edition Hermés' and the Ultravid 10 x 32 HD-PLUS ‘Edition Hermés’ are luxurious black anodized binoculars wrapped in a supple Hermés calfskin leather, paired with a handcrafted canvas and leather Hermés bag with matching strap. The lovely Hermés leather styling is completed by the included matching calfskin wrist strap

 

I have never thought of any Ferrari as a "luxury" car.  Ferraris are high performance cars with a long and storied racing heritage.  I think many would agree with that outlook.

I have always thought of Leica cameras and lenses as high performance cameras and lenses - with a long and storied documentary heritage - rather than "luxury"  or status objects - but maybe that's just me (though I doubt it).

Quote

lifestyle...  Boutique...  exclusive...  Leica brand personality...  fashion...  high-end...  luxury...  elegant...  luxurious...  premium special editions...  exclusive...  unique status of the limited edition...

All the above ad man (or woman) jibber-jabber sounds like Leica is attempting to attract cash flow from people who are not actual image makers but are posers with money who want to look the part of the dreaded "Leica Man" (or Woman). 

If pursuing that stream of revenue helps Leica build and stay on a sound financial foundation, I can't fault them for that.  Leica also tries to appeal to people who are more collectors than image makers via the limited editions;  again, if pursuing that stream of revenue helps Leica build and stay on a sound financial foundation, that seems like a good idea.

If the ad man (or woman) jibber-jabber designates Leica as a "luxury" brand/object in the minds of some, that is their opinion.  I still think of of Leica cameras and lenses as high performance cameras and lenses rather than "luxury"  or status objects. 

Except for the $50,000 USD  Hermés set.  That was an exercise in sheer madness 😳 (although I'm pretty sure all 100 of them were snapped up with lightning speed). 

Apparently Leica tries to offer something for everyone, be they image makers, collectors, posers or hoarders.  That seems to be a good business model.

Edited by Herr Barnack
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11 hours ago, Prosophos said:

However, the 50/1.5 II is such a perfect rangefinder lens: wonderful IQ in a small and light package.  I hardly notice it's on the camera.  As such, it is -- ironically -- more in keeping with the Leica tradition.

I absolutely agree. I would love to see Leica trying their hand again with a smaller 50mm 1.4, I’m sure they could get better than the Lux Asph with the technology 17 years later and keep the size of the Nokton Ii. Unfortunately it might cost £9000…😅

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9 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

about to be charged what a 50/1.5 costs new for a CLA

It’s awesome. It’s tiny. It resolves the M10-R like it’s nothing. The colors are rendering all beautiful. Probably a new modern 50 summilux will resolve even more detail, but I can’t pay for that yet. 

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5 hours ago, LarsHP said:

bokeh balls

 When you’re down to discussing bokeh balls at 28mm (where everything is pretty much in focus) you’re really stretching it. 
 

so yea. In conclusion from what I’ve seen so far here, the Leica is definitely NOT worth $4,000 more than the VL in any objective way whatsoever other than you just want to have Leica written on the lens. 

Edited by blackpaint-R
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1 hour ago, Harpomatic said:

I absolutely agree. I would love to see Leica trying their hand again with a smaller 50mm 1.4, I’m sure they could get better than the Lux Asph with the technology 17 years later and keep the size of the Nokton Ii. Unfortunately it might cost £9000…😅

I would hazard to guess that such a lens would sell in record numbers, if they could/would make it.

—Peter.

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19 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

In this thread, Leica has been accused of "positioning itself"  as a "luxury brand." 

I have been making photographs for 40+ years and making them with Leica M cameras/lenses for 18 of those years.  In all that time, I have never once seen an ad made by Leica or read an interview with anyone employed by Leica where anything was said about Leica being a "luxury brand," a "luxury item" or a "luxury camera" - or anything remotely similar that would state or imply that Leica as a company considers itself a "luxury brand."  Those type of statements are being made by other people, not by Leica or its employees.

If anyone can produce an ad or an interview with a Leica employee stating that Leica is a "luxury brand," a "luxury item" or a "luxury camera" or anything remotely similar, by all means - please do so.

 

Well, there was the association with Hermes, and the special editions certainly give that impression. Sultan of Brunei R camera, somebody? ;) 

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  • jaapv unlocked this topic

It is interesting to note that throughout Leica's history there have always been lenses that were cheaper and nearly as good as the Leica equivalents, often even better. I can mention the Oude Delft offerings, the Canon and Nikon LTM lenses and the ding-dong Leica-Zeiss battle before and after WW2, to name but a few. So there is no need for raised hackles and ruffled feathers. 

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