Summilux 50mm f1.4 screw mount first version

[alan mcfall]

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Thanks, I guess all my lens are really 51.6mm.  I will try to look at some other lens to see if they have this "true" focal length identifier.

46 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

the last 2 digits of the measured focal length in 1/10ths of a millimeter of the lens it is engraved on

 

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Again Alan,

These 2 digit, at a right angle to the other numbers on the same line, numbers begin to appear around 1959/1960.  This time period coincides with the introduction of the 50mm f1.4 Summilux lenses that we are discussing here.

This is also the same time that combined meter/feet scales appear for many focal lengths. Meters in black or white. Feet in various colors which might change over time. Sometimes "feet" colors are also dependent on the color/material of the lens barrel. Placement (Whether "feet" or "m" is closer to the camera body.) also sometimes varies in the same lens at different times for various reasons.

Generally lenses with focal lengths shorter than 50mm do not have these numbers engraved on their lens barrels. Generally 50mm & longer Screw Mount, Bayonet Mount (Including the 66mm f2 Summicron.) & Reflex lenses have them (But not always.).

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited December 13, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

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[jerzy]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Michael Geschlecht:

Generally the 2 digit number like "13" designates the last 2 digits of the measured focal length

indeed Michael. Publication of Leica Historica ("25 Jahre Leica Hisgtorica...") has an interesting article about development of Summilux (and other 5cm lenses), article is though in German. The list shown below is from this article

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[UliWer]

Mine (the 25th Summilux) with M-Mount has a „17“. 

I think with 1640xxx serial numbers they also started to indicate the focal length with mm; my Elmar with 1633839 still shows „5cm“. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by UliWer

[luigi bertolotti]

...and my Lux 50 BM has 14... I always thought it was for 51,4 but thanks to Jerzy i see that is indeed 51,45 😎

The "switch" from cm to mm is a detail I was intrigued by some years ago... in one of my moments of deep curiosity on small details... 😆 ; after a long annoying search my conclusion was that it was a non-generalized decision... maybe related to some other minor change occurred from a certain batch of a certain lens... for instance, the SA 21 f4, which started around 1583.xxx was always "21", and so was for the Elmarit 90 which also started about that numbering... for the Summicron 50, I think that the 5cm/50mm switch coincided with the change to feet+meter scale... while for the Elmar 50 2,8 was not like this... you have items in 5cm (1617xxx), in 50mm (1668xxx) with single scale, and later ones with dual scale (50mm of course)... I didn't draw any final document on such question, though... 😁  Anyway another sure conclusion on the style of writing  was that "Italic=cm - Capital=mm" (wait to be contraddicted... 😉)  

[UliWer]

1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said:

my conclusion was that it was a non-generalized decision... maybe related to some other minor change occurred from a certain batch of a certain lens...

Yes, my 35mm Summicron M-mount 1630768 has "35mm", while my 1:3.5 Summaron 1638891 screw-mount has "3,5cm".

So I think that new lenses - like the 35mm Summicron or the 50mm Summilux had mm from their beginning, while older lenses like the 5cm Elmar or 3,5cm Summaron kept the cm for longer.  

I remember an old thread from about 2007-2009 when we came very close to the serial number of the changement from cm to mmm for the 50mm Elmar, but I cannot find it anymore. 

[pippy]

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On 10/1/2021 at 11:42 AM, M9reno said:

...The original front cap and original filters for this lens are, as it turns out, very scarce, by the way...

Interesting to read that, M9reno.

Would you care to elaborate? I ask because the (not infallible) Mr. Rockwell states that both the v1 and v2 Summiluxes shared a 43mm filter thread.

I do have a '53 M-mount Summarit which, as you know, takes 41mm screw-in filters and these - along with caps and the XOONS - are, indeed, often proving difficult to track-down at a 'user' price-level.

Philip.

[UliWer]

You may get 43mm filters - though it will be difficult to find the original ones in silver, if you prefer cosmetics to optics (though I have not seen reflections from my silver ones).

The original hood XOOIM is rare and expensive especially if it comes with the flat front cap; the later 12586 is not so rare, but since it bears the Leica imprint, it is also expensive. 

[luigi bertolotti]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

Interesting to read that, M9reno.

Would you care to elaborate? I ask because the (not infallible) Mr. Rockwell states that both the v1 and v2 Summiluxes shared a 43mm filter thread.

I do have a '53 M-mount Summarit which, as you know, takes 41mm screw-in filters and these - along with caps and the XOONS - are, indeed, often proving difficult to track-down at a 'user' price-level.

Philip.

the not infallible Mr. Rockwell is right on this... 😀 , V1 and V2 are identical on this point...I think M9reno referred to the fact that, as UliWer says, XOOIM with its flat lens cap is indeed rather scarce (I'm proud that my V2 has both 😎) ; just to make hair splitting, I think that hoods with XOOIM writing on the silver base ring are the scarcest ones and maybe (not sure) the writing changed to 12521G (as mine) before V2 intro.

 

[pippy]

Thank you both, Uli and Luigi, for your informative and interesting replies!

I don't have any 50mm f1.4 Leica lens () hence my ignorance in these matters but was curious as to why accessories for the long-lived v2 Summilux might be hard to track down so can I take it that it is really only the very early Leica-branded items which are rare / expensive?

I only have one lens which takes 43mm filters and it is my much-loved 40mm f1.4 Voigtlander Nokton and I have bought a few filters to use with it - but not any which were made by Leitz!

I have enjoyed reading about the v1 Summilux here and especially the description of the changes in rendering from Xenon through Summarit and v1 Summilux to the v2. Fascinating stuff. Even although I only picked up my Summarit within the last year I can very easily appreciate why a photographer would love to be able to choose from all of the above as the mood suits.

Usually for a 50mm my Summicron v4 is 'standard fare' but the Summarit does get out to play very often - especially so with the M Monochrom - so I can see that a couple of Summiluxes in addition could be a very tempting situation to enjoy.

Thanks everyone!

Philip.

Edited December 16, 2021 by pippy

[Michael Geschlecht]

4 hours ago, pippy said:

Interesting to read that, M9reno.

Would you care to elaborate? I ask because the (not infallible) Mr. Rockwell states that both the v1 and v2 Summiluxes shared a 43mm filter thread.

I do have a '53 M-mount Summarit which, as you know, takes 41mm screw-in filters and these - along with caps and the XOONS - are, indeed, often proving difficult to track-down at a 'user' price-level.

Philip.

Hello Philip,

While you are out there looking you might also keep an eye open for an E41, 13360 swing out polarizing filter for your 50mm f1.5 Summarit which is the sibling of the E39, 13352 for the 50mm f2 Summicron & the E43, 13351 for the first version 50mm f1.4 Summilux.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited December 17, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[pippy]

2 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Philip,

While you are out there looking you might also keep an eye open for an E41, 13360 swing out polarizing filter for your 50mm f1.5 Summarit which is the sibling of the 13352 E39 & the 13351 E43 versions.

Best Regards,

Michael

Thank you Michael; As it happens I am continually coming across those filters every day when all I'm really looking for is a UVa!

Philip.

 

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Philip,

I would think that finding an E41, 13205 UV filter would be a piece of cake*.

Best Regards,

Michael

*To be more precise:  Brontosaurus cake.

[luigi bertolotti]

At the time (long ago...🙄) of the M8, as many do remember, Leica provided two UVIR filters with the camera, and deciding for my ones, I choose E39+E49 (this one, thinking of my Elmarit 28), not thinking of Summilux... soon after, I found that the Leica E43 UVIR was very hard to source, and ended up taking a B+W (even marked "PRO"....) , which made its job but... was of standard dimension (1mm height, not 0,5 as the Leica) and did not allow to mount the hood... 😒

Edited December 17, 2021 by luigi bertolotti

[pippy]

10 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

...I would think that finding an E41, 13205 UV filter would be a piece of cake*....To be more precise:  Brontosaurus cake...

Yes, Michael!

I bought the Summarit last February and have been looking for a UVa for it ever since. Back then, of course, I had no idea that they might be few and far between. In those ten months I've only seen two advertised here in the UK. The first I saw was actually available in the same week as I bought the lens but at the time I thought the asking price - around 100 Euros - was a bit high. Now I know better! The second one I saw advertised - for the same price as the first - on the web-site of a well-known dealer. Having learned my lesson as soon as I saw it I went for my bank card and by the time I had logged back in it already had 'Sold' next to it...

Bayonet-fit Summarit filters seem to be more numerous and priced reasonably but, again, I've never seen a UVa / Skylight - only colours.

I do have a Yellow which stays on all the time (the lens is used with the Monochrom almost exclusively) and I bought a Green four weeks ago but it still hasn't arrived. The XOONS is another thing which is always priced more towards the 'collector' market and these, too, don't seem to appear very often. Another London dealership has only had one single example in all my time of looking and it was near-mint so was priced accordingly.

I'm still looking on the various dealers' websites pretty much every day. I'm not in a rush for any of this stuff. Filters need to have clean glass (of course) but the hood could be a real 'beater' as far as I'm concerned; I'm going to use it so condition isn't even remotely an issue. Until such time if I really need a hood then what I've done in the past is to put a thin 'sausage' of Blu-Tack in the filter-threads to hold a reverse-conical vented 40.5 hood in place. Not ideal by a long way but surprisingly effective! I even have a silver-chrome hood to match both lens and body (my Monochrome is, unusually, in Silver-Chrome finish).

Philip.

[wizard]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb pippy:

Bayonet-fit Summarit filters seem to be more numerous and priced reasonably but, again, I've never seen a UVa / Skylight - only colours.

I have a bayonet-fit yellow filter for my Summarit, and since I do not need a yellow filter for that lens (I use other lenses for b+w), I had Heliopan change the yellow glass for a UVa filter glass (they did send the yellow glass back, so I could reconvert the filter if need be). The price was quite reasonable at the time, and the UVa filter glass has Heliopan's best multicoating applied. They may still be willing to do such a conversion, just ask them.

[M9reno]

19 hours ago, pippy said:

Interesting to read that, M9reno.

Would you care to elaborate? I ask because the (not infallible) Mr. Rockwell states that both the v1 and v2 Summiluxes shared a 43mm filter thread.

I do have a '53 M-mount Summarit which, as you know, takes 41mm screw-in filters and these - along with caps and the XOONS - are, indeed, often proving difficult to track-down at a 'user' price-level.

Philip.

Even more than the hood and its flat cap, the regular E43 chrome cap is quite scarce, for some reason (it bears only a superficial similarity to the very common E39 chrome cap).  In fact, I remember that during a visit to the Leica Shop (Vienna) a few years ago, I remarked how all of the v1 and v2 Summilux lenses for sale only came with hoods (no front caps), and was told the caps were almost impossible to find.

As it happens, some time after that visit (and some time after I wrote the above post), I managed to find a Chinese replica cap that is practically perfect (just light aluminium) and was delivery flawlessly, so this is the place to find these caps now:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leica-E43-chrome-front-lens-cap-for-50mm-f-1-4-Summilux-lens-E43-version-/293038639958?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0