willeica Posted September 30, 2021 Share #21 Posted September 30, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 46 minutes ago, jerzy said: Thx William, no, for unknown reason it was missing in my database, added now. I have it in an old spreadsheet. I’m in Wetzlar for the museum opening. I’m hoping to visit the archives tomorrow. I will ask them if the old delivery records identify close focus items. It would be easier if they had a code which they could look up. Otherwise, we are back to examining individual cameras. For what it’s worth, I saw Barnack’s own 0 series No 105 with his name engraved on the viewfinder today. It is on display in Wetzlar until the end of the year. They have done a nice little book on the camera, available in both German and English. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 30, 2021 Posted September 30, 2021 Hi willeica, Take a look here Leica I (Model A) close focus questions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sabears Posted October 1, 2021 Share #22 Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, willeica said: I have it in an old spreadsheet. I’m in Wetzlar for the museum opening. I’m hoping to visit the archives tomorrow. I will ask them if the old delivery records identify close focus items. It would be easier if they had a code which they could look up. Otherwise, we are back to examining individual cameras. For what it’s worth, I saw Barnack’s own 0 series No 105 with his name engraved on the viewfinder today. It is on display in Wetzlar until the end of the year. They have done a nice little book on the camera, available in both German and English. William Hoping that you will find in the archives some answers to share with us, in the meantime... here, from my archive, a photo of one I-A model marked in feet NOT close-focus, n.2026 (Von Einem indicates n.2021): so n.2021 and n.2026 are both NOT close-focus. May be they was from the same batch? It could be that these cameras ("bridge model" according to Von Einem) are rarer than expected: that is even, (but not only) because there are parts the very same as late Elmax model, and in the past they were extremely sought after for the restoration of the Elmax themselves (this is a fact ascertained by at least two cases that I have come to know over the years). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 1, 2021 by sabears 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324928-leica-i-model-a-close-focus-questions/?do=findComment&comment=4284727'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 1, 2021 Share #23 Posted October 1, 2021 3 hours ago, sabears said: Hoping that you will find in the archives some answers to share with us, in the meantime... here, from my archive, a photo of one I-A model marked in feet NOT close-focus, n.2026 (Von Einem indicates n.2021): so n.2021 and n.2026 are both NOT close-focus. May be they was from the same batch? It could be that these cameras ("bridge model" according to Von Einem) are rarer than expected: that is even, (but not only) because there are parts the very same as late Elmax model, and in the past they were extremely sought after for the restoration of the Elmax themselves (this is a fact ascertained by at least two cases that I have come to know over the years). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! What I have from the Leica Archives, Lars and von Einem is a complex picture and I also need to look at my own Feet Scale I As when I get home. I will post here, of course, as soon as I can. I have already agreed to give a Zoom on the Museum opening on Sunday morning for PCCGB. Today in addition to seeing Oskar’s 0 Series again, I also got a chance to see some of his negatives close up. I also saw the actual delivery book for my 57507, but I need to check the camera again when I get home. It is described in the book as a ‘LESSA’ or ‘LESSO’. It was delivered to Paris according to the book, which makes the feet scale seem rather odd. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted October 1, 2021 Share #24 Posted October 1, 2021 Here is 2025 just one digit from your 2026, see Classic Camera magazine #8. Appears to be also in feet, I cannot see if it is close focus but it does have the longer stop stud for focusing. Is camera 103 now in the Wetzlar museum? Also, 122 used to be in the family tree in the old museum. I have recorded current(since 1975) existence of the following: 101, 103, 104, 105, 107,109,111,112,114,,116,118,119,122,124,126,128,129,132. The 14 or so missing from this series, I have not seen anywhere identified. Perhaps other members can help with their null series observations. Some could be destroyed or resting comfortably in a very private collection. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324928-leica-i-model-a-close-focus-questions/?do=findComment&comment=4284866'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 1, 2021 Share #25 Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, alan mcfall said: Is camera 103 now in the Wetzlar museum? Of the 0 Series, only 105 is there and it will remain there until January at which stage it will return to its US owner. Jim Lager, who has photographed it before, has given me the full run down on the ownership trail for that camera. I will do an article on the new museum and link it onto the Leica Forum as soon as I can. I was the only English speaking writer on vintage Leica matters at the launch event on Thursday. I will also try to make sense of the feet scale/close focus business. Von Einem says that there are no close focus metre scale cameras, but Lars tells me that he has seen them. Then there is von Einem's contention that all feet scale cameras above 46,000 are not close focus. Finally, the archive search system would not seem to allow a search based on close focus designation, so a manual search might be the only way of determining what was produced, but even that is not certain. William Edited October 1, 2021 by willeica 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 2, 2021 Share #26 Posted October 2, 2021 20 hours ago, alan mcfall said: Here is 2025 just one digit from your 2026, see Classic Camera magazine #8. Appears to be also in feet, I cannot see if it is close focus but it does have the longer stop stud for focusing. Is camera 103 now in the Wetzlar museum? Also, 122 used to be in the family tree in the old museum. I have recorded current(since 1975) existence of the following: 101, 103, 104, 105, 107,109,111,112,114,,116,118,119,122,124,126,128,129,132. The 14 or so missing from this series, I have not seen anywhere identified. Perhaps other members can help with their null series observations. Some could be destroyed or resting comfortably in a very private collection. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Excellent clarification, thank you. After checking Von Einem's book (images n.62 and 63a) it seems to me that leica I-A 2025 is a close focus model (similar scale of image n.62, instead image 63a, the NON close-focus variant, has the same scale of Leica n.2026). It would be a lot interesting to know from the delivery book if there are any suggestions that can help us to better understand... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beoon Posted October 2, 2021 Share #27 Posted October 2, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I have checked my earliest original Leica booklet for Ogilvy & Co which is dated May 1926 (List: Photo No 2208). The description of the camera in this booklet mentions "the lens may be focused to 3 feet". I have a close focus 1A number 21,220 and Leica archives recently confirmed it was delivered on 6/7/29 and "Camera type, supplier or recipient is not specified" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 2, 2021 by beoon 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324928-leica-i-model-a-close-focus-questions/?do=findComment&comment=4285349'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 3, 2021 Share #28 Posted October 3, 2021 The Leica Delivery Books don't seem to have a specific code word for close focus items. I have checked my I Model A 57507 and it has, indeed, a feet scale close focus (1.5 ft) Elmar, with no depth of field scale, which is contrary to what von Einem said about feet scale items above SN 46000 not being close focus. When I was in the Leica Archives on Friday I checked the delivery on this camera and it seems it was delivered to Paris on 23 April 1931 as a 'LESSA' which is a set with a FODUA or FOFER rangefinder etc in an ETRIN leather case. This is all that the delivery book contains, so information on close focus cameras would have to come from another source or by examination of individual cameras. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now, of course it could be the case that a metre scale or normal focus lens on the camera was replaced with an earlier feet scale close focus lens with no depth of field scale. The lens seems to be identical to that on my earlier close focus I Model A No 35962 which came with a feet scale FODUA with SN 35914 in an ESMIT type case which takes both items. A bit of a mystery then. Lars Netopil tells me that he has seen close focus metre scale Elmars on IAs, but I have never seen one myself nor any evidence of one. I will ask him to let me know if another one turns up. I am not sure whether there is an easy answer to the question which has been posed unless someone wants to start a wide scale search on the internet for close focus I Model As. I will ask Leica if they have production records which have more detail than the delivery books. Jerzy might know what I should ask for. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now, of course it could be the case that a metre scale or normal focus lens on the camera was replaced with an earlier feet scale close focus lens with no depth of field scale. The lens seems to be identical to that on my earlier close focus I Model A No 35962 which came with a feet scale FODUA with SN 35914 in an ESMIT type case which takes both items. A bit of a mystery then. Lars Netopil tells me that he has seen close focus metre scale Elmars on IAs, but I have never seen one myself nor any evidence of one. I will ask him to let me know if another one turns up. I am not sure whether there is an easy answer to the question which has been posed unless someone wants to start a wide scale search on the internet for close focus I Model As. I will ask Leica if they have production records which have more detail than the delivery books. Jerzy might know what I should ask for. William ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324928-leica-i-model-a-close-focus-questions/?do=findComment&comment=4285950'>More sharing options...
nf3996 Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share #29 Posted October 4, 2021 As the original enquirer, I'm most grateful for all of your thoughts and comments. I seem to have set quite a hare running ... Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 4, 2021 Share #30 Posted October 4, 2021 17 hours ago, willeica said: A bit of a mystery then. Lars Netopil tells me that he has seen close focus metre scale Elmars on IAs, but I have never seen one myself nor any evidence of one. I will ask him to let me know if another one turns up. I am not sure whether there is an easy answer to the question which has been posed unless someone wants to start a wide scale search on the internet for close focus I Model As. I will ask Leica if they have production records which have more detail than the delivery books. Jerzy might know what I should ask for. William I hope that at least Lars has, given the exceptional peculiarity, a photo of a close-focus calibrated in meters ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 4, 2021 Share #31 Posted October 4, 2021 1 hour ago, sabears said: I hope that at least Lars has, given the exceptional peculiarity, a photo of a close-focus calibrated in meters ... I will also have a look at an early catalogue from 1931 to see how close focus models could be ordered. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 4, 2021 Share #32 Posted October 4, 2021 The Leica catalogue from 1931 contains no reference to feet scale or close focus models, being available as an option. I have the IA manuals from 1925 and 1928 and they make no reference to close focus models. Likewise there does not appear to be a code that I can see for close focus/feet scale models. I will ask the Archives about 35962 which I mentioned above. I will also ask about the possibility of a second register. Von Einem must have got the information in her book from some source. William 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 5, 2021 Share #33 Posted October 5, 2021 11 hours ago, willeica said: The Leica catalogue from 1931 contains no reference to feet scale or close focus models, being available as an option. I have the IA manuals from 1925 and 1928 and they make no reference to close focus models. Likewise there does not appear to be a code that I can see for close focus/feet scale models. I will ask the Archives about 35962 which I mentioned above. I will also ask about the possibility of a second register. Von Einem must have got the information in her book from some source. William Great job! It would be interesting if you can get the information of the Leica between ser.n. 2020-2030, because it seems that there are both variants marked in feet, close-focus and NON close focus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 5, 2021 Share #34 Posted October 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, sabears said: Great job! It would be interesting if you can get the information of the Leica between ser.n. 2020-2030, because it seems that there are both variants marked in feet, close-focus and NON close focus. First of all we have to find out where, if anywhere, cameras were recorded as being feet scale/close up and how this was done. It might require quite a bit of research on the registers then to actually determine numbers. In house expertise on vintage Leicas is quite limited and we may have to help them. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 5, 2021 Share #35 Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) I hope to be proved wrong... but I think that some rather definitve statement on this matter will be impossible : they were the first years of Leca as an industrial manufacturer of camera... the regular rule for which one code=one product was still a build-up process... the differentation "scale in feet/scale in meters" was adopted later on, iirc... and maybe orders from distributors were still managed "one by one"... to say, if Ogilvy asked, for instance, "can I have 100 cameras with a closer focus ?" they simply discussed details on delivery, cost, timing and reached an agreement... not thinking that almost 100 years after some people would have been very curios on the matter 😎 (makes me think of Mr. Jellinek selling german cars in France in 1900, who asked "Hey Daimler&Benz, could you make 50 or so FINE cars I think to sell here ?... and I'd like to give them a gentle name... like my daugher's one for instance... "Mercedes".." Edited October 5, 2021 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 5, 2021 Share #36 Posted October 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said: I hope to be proved wrong... but I think that some rather definitve statement on this matter will be impossible : they were the first years of Leca as an industrial manufacturer of camera... the regular rule for which one code=one product was still a build-up process... the differentation "scale in feet/scale in meters" was adopted later on, iirc... and maybe orders from distributors were still managed "one by one"... to say, if Ogilvy asked, for instance, "can I have 100 cameras with a closer focus ?" they simply discussed details on delivery, cost, timing and reached an agreement... not thinking that almost 100 years after some people would have been very curios on the matter 😎 (makes me think of Mr. Jellinek selling german cars in France in 1900, who asked "Hey Daimler&Benz, could you make 50 or so FINE cars I think to sell here ?... and I'd like to give them a gentle name... like my daugher's one for instance... "Mercedes".." I agree: this is the reason why we have to look into the delivery book... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 5, 2021 Share #37 Posted October 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, sabears said: I agree: this is the reason why we have to look into the delivery book... As I said above, the delivery book entry, about one of my own close focus feet scale cameras, does not show anything that might indicate that it is a close focus camera. Likewise Laney lists all of the codes, but there is not a specific one for close focus or feet scale cameras. I will start with a query about one of my other close focus cameras and if that does not throw up anything I will then ask about production records or records of orders for Leica dealers. What would be really nice to have would be the order book of a dealer from the 1920s or 30s. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 5, 2021 Share #38 Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, willeica said: As I said above, the delivery book entry, about one of my own close focus feet scale cameras, does not show anything that might indicate that it is a close focus camera. Likewise Laney lists all of the codes, but there is not a specific one for close focus or feet scale cameras. I will start with a query about one of my other close focus cameras and if that does not throw up anything I will then ask about production records or records of orders for Leica dealers. What would be really nice to have would be the order book of a dealer from the 1920s or 30s. William I understand this: at least knowing "who, when and where" could help to drive the search. I hope you are lucky in this 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beoon Posted October 5, 2021 Share #39 Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 9:23 AM, nf3996 said: As the original enquirer, I'm most grateful for all of your thoughts and comments. I seem to have set quite a hare running ... Alan I am very glad you set this hare running as I suspect there is plenty still to be discovered regarding these cameras, I certainly am very interested in finding out more. I agree that no code word has ever been assigned to these specific feet scale close focus cameras and if for the moment we accept the fact that Lars has seen a metre scale close focus camera. That would mean that 4 x cameras would share the same Leitz code word, given that the whole point of the code word system was to alleviate errors in ordering then I find that very odd. What we can be almost certain about each of the 4 variations is therefore 1 - non close focus - metre scale (regular 1A production) 2 - close focus - metre scale (very rare, but if we accept the fact Lars has seen these) 3 - non close focus - feet scale (very rare and only ever accounted for in a very small serial number batch or possibly as a "bridge" camera?) 4 - close focus - feet scale (production numbers unknown, for Export only) What is uncertain about the close focus - feet scale is the Ogilvy connection, this has been quoted in the Colin Glanfield book, but is there factual evidence of this connection I am planning to do more research, but for the moment I can only find a direct mention of the close focus - feet scale camera in one brochure detailed below. "Leica The Universal Camera" (Catalogue No 1166 E Leitz Inc New York December 1929) This also has an associated price list and code word reference The construction section in the brochure states "Focusing is accomplished by turning the entire mount in its helical screw thread. The scale is graduated from infinity down to 1 1/2 feet" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324928-leica-i-model-a-close-focus-questions/?do=findComment&comment=4287087'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 5, 2021 Share #40 Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) Quite intersting doc in comparision of the previous : USA - year 1929 - official Leitz N.Y. list : focus declared 1,5 ft UK - year 1926 - Oglivy list : focus declared 3 ft. Was it really Ogilvy the "originator" of the close focus model ? If so... Leitz decided it was a good idea... can be that at the end the possible conclusion is that : - The 3 ft. 1A are few and only from first batches . From a certain s/n onwards, all the feet-scaled are close focus : it was the standard when they had to machine a mount with feet engravings. - Close focus in meters are few , maybe special ordered (and has this been recorded ? Let's wait for William tour 😎 ) (as a side note : the Compur is in the US list, but not mentioned in the description which puts emphasis on the shutter's quality, and priced 20% less... was a sort of "cheap alternative"...) Edited October 5, 2021 by luigi bertolotti 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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