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Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]


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4 hours ago, Dopaco said:

An M8 or M9 would give a better result.

I highly doubt it. 

The M9 is unusable above iso 640. The Pixii, thanks to its BSI sensor, is on another level.

Probably the M10 is competitive enough, sensor wise, and in that case other factors come into play (body size, operating speed, etc) but I'd take a Pixii even over a M240 any day

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I really like the fact that you can have a nicely built rangefinder, with an innovative optical viewfinder, with a top APS sensor which is compact and only weights 460g. 
I contacted the company and the CEO answered to my questions on a saturday in only one hour. Incredible. 
They are planning to drastically improve the camera with the next firmwares. 

I find the price reasonable for a niche product.  Even if I really like M8 and M9, they are only usable at low isos, make a lot of noise and are not lighter or more compact than a modern M camera. 

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Isn't it too restrictive ?

Only 28mm (42mm) as the widest and 50mm (75mm) as the longest. 35mm (52.5mm) and 40mm (60mm) in between.

Viewfinder has only 53.6° of field of view instead of 75.4°on any 0.72x M rangefinder. What is the eye relief, can we even see the 28mm frame lines with glasses ? 

Effective base length is 49.2mm same as 0.72x M rangefinder hopefully

So no wide angle nor telephoto field of view with Pixii. Leica has nothing too fear, as long as people wants to use real 28mm, 35mm or 90mm field of view. Some eminently classical M focal lengths by the way

 

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Edited by nicci78
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Apparent confusion between EBL (effective base length) and MBL (mechanical base length) here. As far as EBL is concerned, the Pixii (32.96mm?) should stand in-between Epson R-D1 (38.20mm) and Minolta CLE (28.77mm). No problem to focus 12mm to 50mm lenses except 50/0.95 and 50/1 then, at least in theory.

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1 hour ago, lct said:

Apparent confusion between EBL (effective base length) and MBL (mechanical base length) here. As far as EBL is concerned, the Pixii (32.96mm?) should stand in-between Epson R-D1 (38.20mm) and Minolta CLE (28.77mm). No problem to focus 12mm to 50mm lenses except 50/0.95 and 50/1 then, at least in theory.

Not to mention that my Leica M4-2 has 35-50-90-135 framelines and that does not limit nor render incapable my ability to use 10, 15, 21, 28, 43, and 75 mm lenses on it. I just pop an accessory optical finder into the accessory shoe and frame with that, or just guesstimate framing since I know the FoV coverage of all my lenses very well. ;)

Critical focus for ultra-fast, macro, and long tele lenses ... well, that's what SLRs and EVF cameras are best at, and why they were invented. Why sweat that a compact RF camera isn't the best at those things? 

G

Edited by ramarren
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6 minutes ago, ramarren said:

Not to mention that my Leica M4-2 has 35-50-90-135 framelines and that does not limit nor render incapable my ability to use 10, 15, 21, 28, 43, and 75 mm lenses on it. I just pop an accessory optical finder into the accessory shoe and frame with that, or just guesstimate framing since I know the FoV coverage of all my lenses very well. ;)

Critical focus for ultra-fast, macro, and long tele lenses ... well, that's what SLRs and EVF cameras are best at, and why they were invented. Why sweat that a compact RF camera isn't the best at those things? 

G

You're preaching to the choir ;). R-D1 user here. It's just that Pixii seems to have confused EBL for MBL at some stage, i don't know why.

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4 minutes ago, lct said:

You're preaching to the choir ;). R-D1 user here. It's just that Pixii seems to have confused EBL for MBL at some stage, i don't know why.

Perhaps a translation error..? No matter, it's easy to measure the rangefinder mechanical base length and calculate the effective base length since the latter is just a combination of the MBL and the viewfinder magnification. Easy peezy. 😇

G

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On 2/28/2022 at 3:47 PM, Simone_DF said:

The M9 is unusable above iso 640.

I must be doing something wrong, with correct exposure I had no trouble shooting my M240 at ISO 2500.

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19 hours ago, jaapv said:

I must be doing something wrong, with correct exposure I had no trouble shooting my M240 at ISO 2500.

M240 != M9

But anyway, you can use it even at higher iso if you wish, but results will be highly different and you will definitely see much more noise compared to a newer generation sensor.

Personally I wouldn't use a M9 not even for free.

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21 hours ago, lct said:

Apparent confusion between EBL (effective base length) and MBL (mechanical base length) here. As far as EBL is concerned, the Pixii (32.96mm?) should stand in-between Epson R-D1 (38.20mm) and Minolta CLE (28.77mm). No problem to focus 12mm to 50mm lenses except 50/0.95 and 50/1 then, at least in theory.

EBL depends of Pixii viewfinder magnification. Covering only 42mm at best, it can be 1x magnification. If mechanical base length is 49.2mm x1 = 49.2mm EBL. 

Can an owner of Pixii measure the mechanical base length ? (the red line on the photo) and tell us if the viewfinder is lifelike with both eyes open = 1x magnification. 

If viewing is smaller = inferior to 1x magnification, something like 0.91x for example.

If viewing is bigger than real life = superior to 1x magnification, something like 1.1x 

 

Sadly Pixii did not provide those basic informations.

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Edited by nicci78
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Leica M8 with its APS-H sensor still provide more useful range 24mm (32mm) 28mm (37mm) 35mm (46.5mm) 50mm (66.5mm) 75mm (100mm) 90mm (120mm) 

32mm to 120mm (3.75x range) is way better than 42mm to 75mm (1.78x)

Pixii should have accommodate those framelines too  : 18mm (27mm) 21mm (31.5mm) 24mm (36mm) 75mm (112.5mm) to be really useful. 

Edited by nicci78
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8 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

EBL depends of Pixii viewfinder magnification. Covering only 42mm at best, it can be 1x magnification. If mechanical base length is 49.2mm x1 = 49.2mm EBL. 

The Pixii's VF magnification is not 1x but 0.67x according to Pixii specs. The Pixii's EBL calculation should then be 49.20mm MBL x 0.67 VF mag = 32.96mm EBL as i suggested above but i may be wrong. What is sure is MBL and EBL are not the same thing but you know this already of course.

 

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1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

EBL depends of Pixii viewfinder magnification. Covering only 42mm at best, it can be 1x magnification. If mechanical base length is 49.2mm x1 = 49.2mm EBL. 

Can an owner of Pixii measure the mechanical base length ? (the red line on the photo) and tell us if the viewfinder is lifelike with both eyes open = 1x magnification. 

If viewing is smaller = inferior to 1x magnification, something like 0.91x for example.

If viewing is bigger than real life = superior to 1x magnification, something like 1.1x 

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The window at the left (start point of the arrow) is the luminosity window. More to the right is the rangefinder window (the lighter one).

See: https://www.cameraquest.com/leica.htm

The base distance on my IIIf is 39mm. The rf magnifies 1.5 times, so the effective base is 58,5mm.

Edited by jankap
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1 hour ago, lct said:

The Pixii's VF magnification is not 1x but 0.67x according to Pixii specs. The Pixii's EBL calculation should then be 49.20mm MBL x 0.67 VF mag = 32.96mm EBL as i suggested above but i may be wrong. What is sure is MBL and EBL are not the same thing but you know this already of course.

 

Just wait someone having the Pixii to confirm. 
Otherwise 0.67x VF with 42mm effective field of view is very small. And even more disappointing. Especially with 49.2mm base length  

Why on earth there is no way to try it in a store in Paris ? It is a french company for god sake. 

Edited by nicci78
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RF Baselength x Magnification = 49x0.76 = 37.24 which is about twice the EBL of the CL. For all practical purposes, this is good enough for me. The contrast of the RF is good and I can focus the thing very well even with the wrong glasses on.

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5 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

a store in Paris

All the store owners in Paris anxiuously follow this thread and none dare ordering one because of all the bean counting going on here.

It's a new kind of camera. It's at least in the same league as the original CL, even if it has no framelines for 75mm or 90mm.

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8 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Otherwise 0.67x VF with 42mm effective field of view is very small. And even more disappointing. Especially with 49.2mm base length

By comparison, the film CL's EBL is 18.90mm (31.50mm x 0.60).

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  • andybarton changed the title to Pixii - complementary or competition? [Merged]

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