50mm f/2 APO‑Summicron‑M ASPH Filter size (thread pitch size)

[Bobsur]

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Hello I have  a Leica M type 246 with a 50mm f/2 APO-Summicron- M ASPH Lens. Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

I am trying to get an ND filter for the lens. The lens takes e39 filters. Leica do anND filter at E39 but it only offers 3-4 stops and I am looking for more.

There is a good deal of conflicting information about the filter size. Many are saying that 39 mm filters will not fit E 39 lenses which is the size of the summicron. Upon further research it appears that the thread pitch size for E 39 is 0.5 mm whereas for other 39 mm filters it is 0.75 mm. Urth, have confirmed that this is the case with them and there ND filters and say they are incompatible. I am waiting to hear back with regards to B and W. 

I have even approached Leica and they have have sent the question to Germany for an answer!

Reading between the lines, I wonder whether the E 39 is perhaps double threaded and will allow for a 39 mm lens as well as an E39- but this is a guess.

I have considered getting a step up ring if the thread pitch size on the Summicron is different to that of 39mm filters. That said I am yet to see such a step up ring that size.

I've spent quite some time today researching this and cannot really find an answer or anywhere the question has been asked before. I'm hoping that I am just being an idiot and the answer is, of course a plain (non-E) 39 mm  filter will fit the lens! 

 

Any advice would be welcome. Bob.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Bobsur
spellings

[jaapv]

Welcome to the forum.
This is a surprising question and I wonder what sites you have been reading to find conflicting information. Any 39 mm filter you buy will fit your lens with a 0.5 pitch The only 39 mm  0.75 pitch filter threads that exist are on lenses that take 5.5 series filter, as the filter adapter will have a different pitch - but those are lenses of over seventy years old for the Flim CL and the MR-Telyt-R 500.  The E designation is a historical one that indicates the normalisation from before  WW2 and does not indicate any pitch. It means E(inschraubgewinde) or screw-in thread and is used as opposed to slip-on filters. On present day filters the letter is sometimes used. to indicate single coating (but not since 1990) So just buy a 39 mm filter from one of the major brands like B+W or Heliopan and screw it into your lens.

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[Gobert]

In have an APO 50. I have protector-, 3 stops ND-, yellow- and orange filters from B+W and Heliopan and they fit all without any problems.

[Bobsur]

I approached Urth to purchase their ND filter. I have never used non-Leica filters before. They told me that the pitch on their 39mm filter was 0.75mm and would not fit my Summicron which was 0.5mm. Presumably they are wrong and face selling few of their filters? Curious, I explored further.

And when I did, there was plenty of keyboard Leica expert warriors out there, whilst busy extracting sunbeams out of cucumbers, still didn't really nail it until Jaapv came to the rescue.

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/39mm-es-filter-0-75-pitch.268628/

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/leica-uva-filters-vs-b-w-or-heliopan-filters.274680/

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/why-doesnt-39mm-13352x-polarizer-fit.165297/

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/39mm-is-not-39mm.129230/print

Thanks.

[a.noctilux]

@Bobsur

If the marking on the filter is E39, as said Jaap, this would be the right one for your lens.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/50mm_f/2_APO-Summicron-M_ASPH.

...

Maybe some 'exotic' maker would mark E39 for 39x0.75, but well known brands would not, as those are Serie 5.5 for very rare lenses like Summicron-C 40/Elmar-C 90.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/40mm_f/2_Summicron-C

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/4_Elmar-C

 

 

[Bobsur]

E39 filter for e39 lens. With you there, 🙂 

 

 

[a.noctilux]

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29 minutes ago, Bobsur said:

E39 filter for e39 lens. With you there, 🙂 

 

 

I don't understand.

What is e39 lens ? I have never seen one.

Like this one ?

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited September 11, 2021 by a.noctilux

[pedaes]

This isn't difficult.  B+W 39mm filters are an exact fit for your 50mm APO-Summicron , and B+W have a range of  ND filters covering any density you need. Can be 'doubled up' if necessary. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by pedaes

[lct]

Heliopan used to make 39 x 0.75 UV filters but i have never heard of 39 x 0.75 ND filters so far. 

[Bobsur]

3 hours ago, pedaes said:

This isn't difficult.  B+W 39mm filters are an exact fit for your 50mm APO-Summicron , and B+W have a range of  ND filters covering any density you need. Can be 'doubled up' if necessary. 

When I contacted the retailer, Microglobe about such a b and w filter yesterday they couldn't tell me the pitch size and given that Urth 39mm filters, according to Urth, have 0.75mm pitch and given 39mm 0.75mm filters do actually exist and given the inchoate advice on the internet, it felt prudent to ask the question here.

The same question I asked B&H yesterday and was told B&W 39mm filters were a 0.75 pitch.

So there we have it. I have done my research and asked many people including retailers, self-professed Leica guru's and other all manner of other enthusiasts and, whilst I am grateful to Jaapv and Pedaes et al, I will now aim to speak to an expert and clear this up.

 

[a.noctilux]

Have a look at this page

https://schneiderkreuznach.com/en/photo-optics/b-w-filters/mounts

 

Ø	B+W Exclusive Line T-Pro Foto	B+W Premium Line XS-Pro Digital Foto	B+W Premium Line XS-Pro Digital Pol	B+W Premium Line XS-Pro Digital ND Vario	B+W Professional Line F-Pro Foto	B+W Professional Line F-Pro Pol	B+W Basic Line Basic Pol
30.5 30.5 x 0.5	+	+	+	-	-	-	-
37 37.0 x 0.75	+	+	+	-	+	+	+
39 39.0 x 0.5	+	+	+	-	+	+	+
40.5 40.5 x 0.5	+	+	+	-	+	+	+
43 43.0 x 0.75	+	+	+	-	+	+	+
46 46.0 x 0.75	+	+	+	+	+	+	+
49 49.0 x 0.75	+	+	+	+	+	+	+

[Thury]

"ISO 1948 : 1987 Photography - Front lens barrels up to 127 mm - Dimensions important to the connection of auxiliaries" is the international standard specifying filter threads. It specifies that up to and including a diameter of 40.5mm the pitch is 0.5mm, that from 43 to 82mm it is 0.75mm and for larger filters it is 1.0mm. The 39mm diameter is not listed though (35.5 and 40.5mm are the nearest listed diameters) but a 0.5mm pitch is consistent with the rest of the standard.

I do not have an Urth filter in 39mm but a pair of their 39mm filter stack caps that were bought in March are definitely 39 x 0.75mm which is quite wrong for generic filter stack caps. I don't know if this is a bug or a feature or if this is still the case.

[pedaes]

14 hours ago, Bobsur said:

When I contacted the retailer,

Not sure if you are for real. You don't need an 'expert' to 'clear this up'. Take it from someone who owns a 50mm APO-Summicron that 39mm B+W (plus, not and) fit.

The two posts above tell you everything you need to know.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by pedaes

[Gobert]

As posted before. All my standard 39mm filters B&W and Heliopan fit smoothly. I’ve never made considerations about 0,75 or 0,5 when I bought them.

[dmarkii]

any reason to spend the $125 on the Leica brand filter versus a B&W which is about $60 for the APO 50 lens?  I figure if I'm spending this much money on the "perfect" lens should I really be cheaping out on the glass I'm putting in front of it? But maybe doesn't matter.  For me specifically I'm thinking of getting the orange filter for use with a M10-Monochrom sensor.   Thanks! 

[Herr Barnack]

43 minutes ago, dmarkii said:

any reason to spend the $125 on the Leica brand filter versus a B&W which is about $60 for the APO 50 lens?  I figure if I'm spending this much money on the "perfect" lens should I really be cheaping out on the glass I'm putting in front of it? But maybe doesn't matter.  For me specifically I'm thinking of getting the orange filter for use with a M10-Monochrom sensor.   Thanks! 

The Leica filters are made with Schott glass and are multi coated..  That's the kind of filter you want.  B+W filters are also made of Schott glass; the B+W MRC filters are also multi-coated. 

I have always purchased B+W MRC filters for my M lenses.  From what I understand, the Leica  filters and B+W multi-coated filters are equals in terms of quality and image quality.  Why pay twice the price for a Leica filter?

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[jpto]

On 2/7/2022 at 9:02 PM, dmarkii said:

any reason to spend the $125 on the Leica brand filter versus a B&W which is about $60 for the APO 50 lens?  I figure if I'm spending this much money on the "perfect" lens should I really be cheaping out on the glass I'm putting in front of it? But maybe doesn't matter.  For me specifically I'm thinking of getting the orange filter for use with a M10-Monochrom sensor.   Thanks! 

Lensrentals did a test a while back, pretty much no difference on the top filter brands. Splitting hairs Leica came out on top by .2% vs B+W

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