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Let’s Start a new wish list for a SL3.


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I have owned the SL2 since November 2019, I have used it in the studio , for street photography, wildlife, portraits, travel , just about anything you can imagine I have thrown at this camera .. Sl lenses , R lenses , M lenses and Canon super telephoto lenses all were fine . The only thing I would like to see on the next model is a phase detect auto focus. It just sucks in tracking fast moving subjects. Fix that and perfection is achieved.

I have two real requests: phase detection AF for better C-AF performance tiltable backsreen everything else ist just right how it is (for me).  

BM Raw would be great. In theory they could do 8K raw, given that the SL2 sensor already has more than the required 8192 pixels in the long dimension. Here's an idea I had back in the SL days. Leica can use it for the SL3: provide a "cine" battery grip that has holes for 15mm rods (follow-focus), XLR connectors, and a fast storage interface (M2 drive, or straight-to-USB3 raw recording).

3 hours ago, hillavoider said:

SL3 would have to have pdaf and actual eye auto focus not just leica telling us it does and you have to trust us  🙄

the current large and very expensive l mount lenses would work with pdaf wouldn't they? 

but the eye af works, at least on the SL2-s. It does indeed focus on the nearest eye. The trick is to disable the feature if there are more than 3 people moving in the frame, in that case the alghorithm / processor is not fast and powerful enough and start to misbehave, but if you have one or two people in the frame, it works ok.

To answer your question: yes, all lenses will work with PDAF too

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17 hours ago, BernardC said:

BM Raw would be great. In theory they could do 8K raw, given that the SL2 sensor already has more than the required 8192 pixels in the long dimension.

Here's an idea I had back in the SL days. Leica can use it for the SL3: provide a "cine" battery grip that has holes for 15mm rods (follow-focus), XLR connectors, and a fast storage interface (M2 drive, or straight-to-USB3 raw recording).

I really like this idea!

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4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

but the eye af works, at least on the SL2-s. It does indeed focus on the nearest eye. The trick is to disable the feature if there are more than 3 people moving in the frame, in that case the alghorithm / processor is not fast and powerful enough and start to misbehave, but if you have one or two people in the frame, it works ok.

To answer your question: yes, all lenses will work with PDAF too

That’s great about the lenses 

But eye detection doesn’t exist on the SL2 I’m afraid not even close, even though Leica sales claimed it did at the release

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27 minutes ago, hillavoider said:

That’s great about the lenses 

But eye detection doesn’t exist on the SL2 I’m afraid not even close, even though Leica sales claimed it did at the release

It will be fixed in the upcoming update, because on the SL2-s works much better

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/12/2021 at 11:10 PM, Eclectic Man said:

Anti-dust features to prevent or remove dust getting on the sensor when changing lenses.

Sensor cleaning mode for when the above does not work perfectly.

Better support for non-Leica lenses (to avoid the warnings about 'low battery' when using them).  For example, you can even get this when using manual focus lenses.

 

And a complete manual (the left hand side ports are not even mentioned in the SL2 manual).

Not sure how it would be possible to avoid dust getting on a sensor once you expose it by taking off the lens. ????

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Am 15.9.2021 um 13:41 schrieb Simone_DF:

It will be fixed in the upcoming update, because on the SL2-s works much better

I'm thinking about buying the SL2-S but I'm still insecure because of the AF. What's your experience with the latest firmware update as far as the AF (speed und Eye detection) is concerned?

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20 minutes ago, olli said:

I'm thinking about buying the SL2-S but I'm still insecure because of the AF. What's your experience with the latest firmware update as far as the AF (speed und Eye detection) is concerned?

I've seen further, smaller improvements in the 2.1 firmware update, focus lock on eye/face is more stable when multiple people are in the frame. 

While this is no Sony or Canon, I think as of now it's very good in AFS. Last week I was at a street festival and well over 90% of the shots where in focus on either the face or the eye, and focusing was more stable even with multiple people moving erratically in all directions in the frame. 

AFC is another matter and it's still underwhelming. 

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On 9/14/2021 at 12:02 PM, Simone_DF said:

Panasonic tried the same approach, premium prices for premium products, but the S1R and S1 got discontinued after 2 years. Sorry but it doesn't look like a success to me.

I bought my s1 in April 2019, and the release had just happened, so the s1 and s1r are not two years old, they are three and a half years old. For a digital camera that seems a pretty normal life cycle to me…

As for the SL2, I am very happy with mine. My wish would be that the SL3 be as good. There are always things to want, but in this case it is mostly lens options or flash integration, which is not totally on Leica. I wish Leica had a profoto integration…it seems crazy to me that they have not been able to work something out with profoto. The A1 is perfectly suited to it and they have a similar market segment…

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Yesterday I had another event shoot with the new firmware 3.0

I was testing different focusing mode on 3 people 6ft apart giving a speech . I was surprising that it performed poorly in AFs to many times. body detection works sometime, with times not seeing the 3rd person at all. swishing to field I got getter results, still hunting quite a bit and missing focus on a few. Spot had a hard time on faces.

It is probably Lens and Lighting dependent. but I was hoping for better improvements.

the shots where 3 people on a side by side line, LED  video lighting, with Sl2 24-90 at 24mm f4 ISO 800

 

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1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I bought my s1 in April 2019, and the release had just happened, so the s1 and s1r are not two years old, they are three and a half years old. For a digital camera that seems a pretty normal life cycle to me…

That's 2 years and half, not 3 and half. Apr 2019 -> Apr 2021 is 2 years, Apr to October is 6 months

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On 9/10/2021 at 4:31 AM, frame-it said:

the only thing that irritates me is:

while zoomed in the EVF, the thumbwheel doesn't adjust shutter speed or whatever but only the zoom factor!

I agree, unless I'm missing something. In manual with a R lens using the Leica adaptor, I have to hold the the shutter half way and then turn the big knob with the other hand to see the exposure and change it. Works on a tripod, but without a 3rd hand I don't know how to do it.

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Am 15.9.2021 um 13:13 schrieb hillavoider:

That’s great about the lenses 

But eye detection doesn’t exist on the SL2 I’m afraid not even close, even though Leica sales claimed it did at the release

Eye detection on SL2 DOES work (with focus on the nearest eye). Even my SL 601 has this feature...

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Leica mentioned that part of the face detection the closes eye would be in focus. they limited the boxes just on the face to simplify experience .

 

In my test this works real well with Summicron-SL lenses and less on zooms. Lighting condition can influence the performance and we are talking about photo not video.

In my test with 90-280 and portrait of a person with glasses, most of the time the focus will go on the frame of the glasses, what is 💩

It would be nice an improvement on the sensor with phase detection.

 

the new Sigma FP L has it integrated. Image plane phase-difference AF + Contrast detection system

So all the lenses will work just fine. 

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I'll chime in not with wishes but with problems I actually encounter while using the SL2.

As background, I shoot mainly live music performances - often in very low light.

In this situation:

1. Sometimes the autofocus does not lock right away and hunts when in spot mode.  I'd like to see this get better.

2. Eye focus and face focus rarely do what I want them to do, which is to get the focus on the near eye of the person nearest to where I put my spot focus point.  I'd like to see this get better.

3. Auto ISO is great, BUT: when I set a minimum shutter speed for auto ISO, this is not a hard limit - if the camera gets to max ISO when I'm in auto ISO mode with manually selected aperture, the camera sets a slower shutter speed than the minimum I set in the menu.  This *always* results in a blurry photo in my use case.  I'd rather have a noisy photo than a blurry photo; I can work on noise in post.  I'd like an option for the shutter speed minimum to be a hard limit, so that the camera just underexposes when the aperture/min shutter/max ISO triangle can't get a proper exposure.

4. Speaking of ISO, in my shooting the highest ISO at which I can reliably get a usable photo after applying noise reduction in post is 6400.  This is pretty good (as I said, I'm shooting in VERY dark rooms sometimes), but another stop would be even better.

5. Sometimes I select one of my user profiles but I've changed (and forgotten about) some setting that's not part of the user profile bundle, and it stays changed.  I'd like user profiles to save ALL camera settings, not just a few selected ones.

6. The rear joystick is *just a little* too far away from my right thumb when I'm gripping the camera with the finder window up to my eye.  I'd love to have it moved just a smidge closer to my right hand.  Reaching for it and missing sometimes delays me in moving the focus point so I can't get the composition I want in time to take my shot.

7. Why does the R Adapter L cost A THOUSAND DOLLARS???

There are a couple things that seem like problems but in my use really aren't.  The battery life isn't fantastic, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've run a batter flat in actual use, and I've NEVER run my second battery flat.  I can imagine a situation where I'd like a flip-down screen because I'm taking pictures over the head of a crowd, but again I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed a shot because of that.

So basically I'm asking for just some incremental improvements and nothing revolutionary.  If that sounds to you like I'm pretty happy with the SL2, you'd be right.  For what I use cameras for most of the time it's already the best tool, at least for me.  If I had to ask for just one thing in the firmware updates it would be the hard-stop shutter speed minimum in Auto ISO mode.  If I had to ask for just one thing in a hardware upgrade, it would be the extra stop of dynamic range.

Here's a shot near the limits of the SL2:

 

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9 hours ago, blakley said:

I'll chime in not with wishes but with problems I actually encounter while using the SL2.

As background, I shoot mainly live music performances - often in very low light.

In this situation:

1. Sometimes the autofocus does not lock right away and hunts when in spot mode.  I'd like to see this get better.

2. Eye focus and face focus rarely do what I want them to do, which is to get the focus on the near eye of the person nearest to where I put my spot focus point.  I'd like to see this get better.

3. Auto ISO is great, BUT: when I set a minimum shutter speed for auto ISO, this is not a hard limit - if the camera gets to max ISO when I'm in auto ISO mode with manually selected aperture, the camera sets a slower shutter speed than the minimum I set in the menu.  This *always* results in a blurry photo in my use case.  I'd rather have a noisy photo than a blurry photo; I can work on noise in post.  I'd like an option for the shutter speed minimum to be a hard limit, so that the camera just underexposes when the aperture/min shutter/max ISO triangle can't get a proper exposure.

4. Speaking of ISO, in my shooting the highest ISO at which I can reliably get a usable photo after applying noise reduction in post is 6400.  This is pretty good (as I said, I'm shooting in VERY dark rooms sometimes), but another stop would be even better.

5. Sometimes I select one of my user profiles but I've changed (and forgotten about) some setting that's not part of the user profile bundle, and it stays changed.  I'd like user profiles to save ALL camera settings, not just a few selected ones.

6. The rear joystick is *just a little* too far away from my right thumb when I'm gripping the camera with the finder window up to my eye.  I'd love to have it moved just a smidge closer to my right hand.  Reaching for it and missing sometimes delays me in moving the focus point so I can't get the composition I want in time to take my shot.

7. Why does the R Adapter L cost A THOUSAND DOLLARS???

There are a couple things that seem like problems but in my use really aren't.  The battery life isn't fantastic, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've run a batter flat in actual use, and I've NEVER run my second battery flat.  I can imagine a situation where I'd like a flip-down screen because I'm taking pictures over the head of a crowd, but again I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed a shot because of that.

So basically I'm asking for just some incremental improvements and nothing revolutionary.  If that sounds to you like I'm pretty happy with the SL2, you'd be right.  For what I use cameras for most of the time it's already the best tool, at least for me.  If I had to ask for just one thing in the firmware updates it would be the hard-stop shutter speed minimum in Auto ISO mode.  If I had to ask for just one thing in a hardware upgrade, it would be the extra stop of dynamic range.

 

yeah +1

You may find useful to turn off PRE-FOCUS, Many time I shoot from the same spot and distance does not change. Less hunting and the viewfinder looks sharper.

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On 9/12/2021 at 6:43 PM, Artin said:

The auto focus is lagging way behind for a Camera of this caliber, the highest price Mirrorless full frame should be the state of art in its class

everything  in the SL2 is perfect except for the Autofocus ,phase detect sensor will take care of that and yes better battery life will be very welcome 

throw in a 60mpx sensor and offer a chrome version for bonus

My thoughts:

  • I don't think Phase Detect AF is state-of-the-art.  it's basically miniaturized and computerized rangefinder system, and I think rangefinders are pretty ancient.
  • high-performing SL lenses need accurate AF system; otherwise, what's the point?  Contrast Detection AF is very accurate, and the right solution.
  • My understanding is that SL lenses are designed with Contrast Detection in mind; the focusing elements are very light (< 20 grams), which makes it possible to quickly sweep through the focal range.  I think to incorporate Phase Detection AF, Leica would need to redesign the SL lenses, and that's unlikely to happen.
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10 hours ago, MrFriendly said:

My thoughts:

  • I don't think Phase Detect AF is state-of-the-art.  it's basically miniaturized and computerized rangefinder system, and I think rangefinders are pretty ancient.
  • high-performing SL lenses need accurate AF system; otherwise, what's the point?  Contrast Detection AF is very accurate, and the right solution.
  • My understanding is that SL lenses are designed with Contrast Detection in mind; the focusing elements are very light (< 20 grams), which makes it possible to quickly sweep through the focal range.  I think to incorporate Phase Detection AF, Leica would need to redesign the SL lenses, and that's unlikely to happen.

And this is why all other companies have both phase detect and contrast detect AF. PDAF is arguably much faster and makes tracking subjects a breeze, then CDAF kicks in for accuracy.

As far as I know, no camera has just PDAF.

For your last point: no, no need to redesign the lenses.

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