M10R sleeping

[wizard]

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

This is a design fault - perhaps unavoidable and inherent in CMOS sensors - for which we can always find workarounds.

Just as a matter of interest, why do you consider a power saving option that may be disabled a design fault? Or, by the same token, disabling power saving a workaround? Isn't this just an option the camera offers, and depending on which option is chosen by any given user, the result is as may be expected? That is, if power saving is disabled, the OP's problem will no longer occur, but he may experience more battery drain, whereas if power saving is chosen, the battery will last longer but the camera will have to wake up from sleep mode?

[LocalHero1953]

14 minutes ago, wizard said:

Just as a matter of interest, why do you consider a power saving option that may be disabled a design fault? Or, by the same token, disabling power saving a workaround? Isn't this just an option the camera offers, and depending on which option is chosen by any given user, the result is as may be expected? That is, if power saving is disabled, the OP's problem will no longer occur, but he may experience more battery drain, whereas if power saving is chosen, the battery will last longer but the camera will have to wake up from sleep mode?

I don't consider power saving, or its disabling, a design fault. I do see slow waking from sleep as a design fault*. Disabling power saving is a workaround for it, at the expense, obviously, or higher power consumption.

* But, as I said, perhaps an unavoidable one, inherent in the technology, and not Leica's fault. Perhaps 'design' fault is not the correct term, but fault/flaw/defect/limitation is what it is.

Edited September 8, 2021 by LocalHero1953

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[Helge]

I think all digital cameras have

1. a sleep mode / power saving mode in order to prolong battery life
2. a wake-up procedure from that mode

So I also do not know, where the design fault should be

[jaapv]

On 9/7/2021 at 1:46 AM, Kwesi said:

Great workaround suggestions from both Jaapv and KFo.

Here's hoping that the M11 will join the ranks of a few other top notch cameras that don't require the work around.

It would be the only digital camera without a power save setting if this were implemented - and one that would require a number of spare batteries to be carried.

[Helge]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

I don't consider power saving, or its disabling, a design fault. I do see slow waking from sleep as a design fault*. Disabling power saving is a workaround for it.

* But, as I said, perhaps an unavoidable one, inherent in the technology, and not Leica's fault. Perhaps 'design' fault is not the correct term, but fault/flaw/defect/limitation is what it is.

I just checked my M10. Once I let it go to sleep (I set the time to 2 minutes) I press the button once and it takes <<1 sec to make a picture. Can't imagine to get that any faster?

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, Helge said:

I just checked my M10. Once I let it go to sleep (I set the time to 2 minutes) I press the button once and it takes <<1 sec to make a picture. Can't imagine to get that any faster?

Good. I only checked it when it was launched. The M240 also speeded up with f/w updates in its lifetime. There are ancient threads about this and how to test it.

Edited September 8, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[KFo]

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Just now, Helge said:

I just checked my M10. Once I let it go to sleep (I set the time to 2 minutes) I press the button once and it takes <<1 sec to make a picture. Can't imagine to get that any faster?

I’ve always found it acceptable as well.

[Helge]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

Good. I only checked it when it was launched. The M240 also speeded up with f/w updates in its lifetime. There are ancient threads about this and how to test it.

I have the M10 since 2018, it was never slower to my recollection (always around 0.5 sec).

[LocalHero1953]

It was one of the things I checked back then - too slow for me. Not an "I'll never buy it" issue, and never close, but just one aspect I didn't see as improved over the M240. 

[Helge]

vor einer Stunde schrieb LocalHero1953:

It was one of the things I checked back then - too slow for me. Not an "I'll never buy it" issue, and never close, but just one aspect I didn't see as improved over the M240. 

What time do you need between seeing an opportunity and  setting/shooting the picture? Is 0.5 s really too slow?

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Helge said:

What time do you need between seeing an opportunity and  setting/shooting the picture? Is 0.5 s really too slow?

The time I need is the time I need.

See post #14, para 2, sentence 1.

We could go down the route of you telling me exactly how you time your 0.5secs, to which I could respond by challenging your methodology, and asserting that cameras have different response speeds (IIRC one of the factors that emerged last time we had this debate about the M240), and we could have a nice long depressing forum argument about it.

Or we could just accept that different photographers have different needs, practices, experiences and opinions.

Edited September 8, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[Helge]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

The time I need is the time I need.

See post #14, para 2, sentence 1.

We could go down the route of you telling me exactly how you time your 0.5secs, to which I could respond by challenging your methodology, and asserting that cameras have different response speeds (IIRC one of the factors that emerged last time we had this debate about the M240), and we could have a nice long depressing forum argument about it.

Or we could just accept that different photographers have different needs, practices, experiences and opinions.

So you are just saying "too slow" instead of providing what you expect. I would expect more than just complaining....
Opinions was not the question, I was asking for just facts and numbers. If you consider the wake-up time of the M10 as too slow, what is your expectation so?

[Helge]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

..

See post #14, para 2, sentence 1.

..

That is a funny one 🙂

Since you are too lazy to quote that, I do it for you: "Not all of us are paying attention all the time with our fingers on the shutter button, especially if we're playing with small entertaining and photogenic children."

That says nothing about the time for wake-up you are expecting, it not even tells us, what you are complaining about...???
That you actually have to wake it up?

[LocalHero1953]

13 minutes ago, Helge said:

So you are just saying "too slow" instead of providing what you expect. I would expect more than just complaining....
Opinions was not the question, I was asking for just facts and numbers. If you consider the wake-up time of the M10 as too slow, what is your expectation so?

 

9 minutes ago, Helge said:

That is a funny one 🙂

Since you are too lazy to quote that, I do it for you: "Not all of us are paying attention all the time with our fingers on the shutter button, especially if we're playing with small entertaining and photogenic children."

That says nothing about the time for wake-up you are expecting, it not even tells us, what you are complaining about...???
That you actually have to wake it up?

Find some other part of the internet to relieve your stresses - I'm not playing. Next thing you'll be telling me I'd be better off with a Sony.

For the record, I was responding to the OP who had an issue with wake up from sleep. I passed on what I thought would be useful info to them about when this has come up before - and that it irritated me. Also for the record, I don't doubt that you find the M10 fast enough - these things are not absolutes - all cameras are fast or slow in relation to our own needs and practices.

[Helge]

I have no stress, I see that you are not making-up your mind but complaining. The M10 does not fulfill in your eyes a requirement you don't disclose.
I was only trying to convince you to share your requirements with us to understand why the M10 is not fulfilling those.
Waking-up is inherent for all cameras using electric energy. In the old days, there was no auto power save mode, there was just a switch. Forgetting to switch it off was leading to an ugly experience.

With the introduction of more intelligence in the cameras, any wake-up requires more than connecting a simple meter to a battery, it requires some lines of code to be executed and some more complex systems to be in a stable state first. If 1/2 second is still too long, people indeed have the wrong camera. Btw, the Sony you mentioned is in my opinion not really faster, you need obviously something very fast.

[LocalHero1953]

Keep going. You're fulfilling all my expectations.

[junix]

My M-A and my M10-R have almost exactly the same "wake-up time".. so it doesn't mater if I'm shooting M-digital or M-film, my workflow is roughly the same. Good thing with digital M's is that you can focus while the camera is still waking up (if you really pressed the button too late..).

But I do agree that this is something you have to get used to.

 

[wizard]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb junix:

But I do agree that this is something you have to get used to.

What annoyed me somewhat was the fact that once the M10 goes into sleep mode, the brightline frames in the finder are no longer visible. I have the habit of sometimes taking the camera to the eye just to check how a shot would look like, or to decide which focal length is best suited to a given situation (I may then decide to not take a shot at all). With my M3 or M7, this is possible without having to first switch the camera on. However, with the M10 it requires to wake up the camera (if in sleep mode) or to disable sleep mode and keep the camera switched on. Modern times I guess, and I do appreciate that the LED lighting of the frames does have the advantage of much improved visibility in low light situations.

[a.noctilux]

As I understand, LED lighting frames has some advantages with the said 'flawed design' no lines if sleep (with good idea not to shut up the frames illumination when set 'sleep time off' ).

First thing is absence of VF flare ( 0% of VF/RF flare in M10, while in M-A-s nice VF, with natural lighted frame lines, the flare can happen ...if rarely in my use ), and the

LED brightness adapts itself to environment brightness, without beeing too bright in dim situation.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

And one can change color.