Powerbank for SL2/SL2-S?

[LocalHero1953]

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I'm looking for recommendations for powerbanks that work with the SL2-S via the USB-C port. I have tried a cheapo phone power bank, but the camera just reports "insufficient power". Some members here report success with powerbanks. I would like to know which ones work and which do not before buying.

Background: I want to run the SL2-S as a video camera to record a stage performance in C4k, which is likely to be over an hour in length. I don't yet know if there is a mains supply nearby, the SL2-S battery capacity is not enough, and I don't want to pay for the Leica grip with its second battery.

I have run a test with mains supply to the USB-C port, and the internal battery slowly drains, but seems to last long enough for my needs, so I'm hoping a powerbank will do the job. 

[hoolyproductions]

I have three Mophie (I think they have another trade name now, purchased about 3 years ago) PD USB-C power banks. All three work well for charging. They are approx 6000, 12000 and 21000 MaH, respectively.

More usefully for your question; I did use the 21000 while using the camera as a webcam recently (in video mode). After over an hour of Zoom I noticed that the charge on the camera still depleted, but only by a very small amount.

I also used it on a camping trip when I took several hundred tripod shots. It fully recharged the camera three times during a long shoot, and had plenty left over for my phone and other gadgets.

Haven't tried video mode with the smaller ones.

 

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[Speeding]

I use a RAVPower PD 20000mAh for long recordings.  I have gone 4hrs with external recorder, no problems.  Some PD devices are fickle with some cameras.  The RAVPower and Anker seem to work across my camera systems without troubles.  Others have been hit and miss.

RAVPower Portable Charger USB Battery Pack 20000mAh Power Bank

They are getting difficult to find though with the chip shortage.  They are in and out of stock daily.

 

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Edited September 6, 2021 by Speeding

[Photoworks]

I found that many cables don’t work with the same battery. 
I use this one that works and it is small and light enough to carry

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PXMF52C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

[beewee]

In my testing, there’s no advantage to use USB-C to USB-C versus USB-A to USB-C cable. The camera only supports standard 5v charging and does not support higher current (over 2A) charging. You’d experience less compatibility issues with a standard USB-A port on a power bank. If you must go with USB-C to USB-C, then you’ll want cables and charger from a reputable brand like ANKER, RAV Power, AUKEY, Mophie, Satechi, and Omnicharge.

Also, I noticed that the camera will only charge when powered off. When the camera is powered on, it will just decrease the rate at which it drains the battery.

Edited September 6, 2021 by beewee

[LBJ2]

17 hours ago, Speeding said:

I use a RAVPower PD 20000mAh for long recordings.  I have gone 4hrs with external recorder, no problems.  Some PD devices are fickle with some cameras.  The RAVPower and Anker seem to work across my camera systems without troubles.  Others have been hit and miss.

RAVPower Portable Charger USB Battery Pack 20000mAh Power Bank

They are getting difficult to find though with the chip shortage.  They are in and out of stock daily.

 

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Thank you again! I purchased this RavPower PB based upon what you wrote on the" Power Bank for SL2" thread in this forum. For me turned out to be great buy. 50% off at the time and truly charges the battery in-camera about as fast the Leica OEM charger. I did have to wait some weeks before the unit actually shipped receiving an email that they were having stock issues. At the greatly reduced price it was worth the wait. Otherwise this PB does exactly what I need for the SL2.

* I charge the PB with my MacBook Pro charging cable. 

[Speeding]

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20 hours ago, beewee said:

In my testing, there’s no advantage to use USB-C to USB-C versus USB-A to USB-C cable. The camera only supports standard 5v charging and does not support higher current (over 2A) charging. You’d experience less compatibility issues with a standard USB-A port on a power bank. If you must go with USB-C to USB-C, then you’ll want cables and charger from a reputable brand like ANKER, RAV Power, AUKEY, Mophie, Satechi, and Omnicharge.

Also, I noticed that the camera will only charge when powered off. When the camera is powered on, it will just decrease the rate at which it drains the battery.

With the power on, the camera will not charge the battery but will draw power from the power bank while bypassing the battery...I think.  Put it this way, after 4hrs of recording 4k video the camera battery indicator still shows 100%.  But that's connected to PD.  

[Dennis]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:16 PM, beewee said:

In my testing, there’s no advantage to use USB-C to USB-C versus USB-A to USB-C cable. The camera only supports standard 5v charging and does not support higher current (over 2A) charging. You’d experience less compatibility issues with a standard USB-A port on a power bank. If you must go with USB-C to USB-C, then you’ll want cables and charger from a reputable brand like ANKER, RAV Power, AUKEY, Mophie, Satechi, and Omnicharge.

Also, I noticed that the camera will only charge when powered off. When the camera is powered on, it will just decrease the rate at which it drains the battery.

Glad I found this post. I'm terrible with technical stuff.

I have a ADATA powerbank, which says:

capacity: 20,000mha (72wh)

input: DC 5V  2.0A

output (1&2) DC 5V  2.1A(max)

I used it successfully to charge my D780 battery. I tried for two hours, and it charged the battery from 41% to 68% ... Do you think that is fair?
My question is: Can I use this power bank to charge safety the DSLR batteries with no issue? Another output is recommended, or it's just fine?
Is there any kind of "damage" using a power bank to fully charge an iPad 12.9" Pro? No idea. I bought the ADATA two years ago just for a phone and small rechargeable devices, But I want to be sure it doesn't damage more critical stuff. Thank you!

 

[beewee]

28 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Glad I found this post. I'm terrible with technical stuff.

I have a ADATA powerbank, which says:

capacity: 20,000mha (72wh)

input: DC 5V  2.0A

output (1&2) DC 5V  2.1A(max)

I used it successfully to charge my D780 battery. I tried for two hours, and it charged the battery from 41% to 68% ... Do you think that is fair?
My question is: Can I use this power bank to charge safety the DSLR batteries with no issue? Another output is recommended, or it's just fine?
Is there any kind of "damage" using a power bank to fully charge an iPad 12.9" Pro? No idea. I bought the ADATA two years ago just for a phone and small rechargeable devices, But I want to be sure it doesn't damage more critical stuff. Thank you!

 

Assuming you have the EN-EL15c battery, it has 2280 mAh at 7v which works out to be about 3.192 wh. Given that the output of the charger is around 10w, if things were charging at the max theoretical rate, it should take less than 1hr to charge but there are generally some throttling that takes place to protect the battery and reduce the rate of degradation. Most battery charger will charge at either 1C-3C which means, regardless of capacity and assuming the charger is not the limiting factor, it will still take 1-3 hours to charge. Generally speaking, chargers will start with a higher current but will need to taper off once the battery reaches around 80% charge to avoid damaging the cells. Also, more advanced chargers will check the battery temperature before and during charging and depending on the temperature of the cells, it may limit the charge rate or stop charging if the cell is too cold or too warm. As batteries age, they have more internal resistance so they will also warm up more when they are charged/discharged so those older batteries may also take longer to charge.

Taking all this into account 2hrs to go from 41-68% seems a bit slow but without knowing the state of the batteries, battery/ambient temperature, etc.. it’s hard to make a clear judgement.

Either way, I wouldn’t be concerned about the power bank damaging accessories. A power bank will only supply as much power as the receiving side will allow and all OEM chargers whether it’s a stand alone charger or a built in charger circuit within a camera, iPad or computer from a reputable brand, will have all the standard smarts to protect the battery.

The only time a charger (and cable) may matter would be for more advanced USB-C devices that uses the USB-C Power Delivery (PD) standards which is a kludge of different charging voltage/current standard that are poorly described by the USB consortium’s labeling standards. USB PD supports various charging voltages from 5v to 20v and up to a max of 2 to 3 amps but standard USB-C cables only support up to 2A. In order to charge at higher current, you’ll need a more beefy cable that has some electronics which tells the charger that it can support higher current. It’s a total mess.

[Dennis]

Thank you so much for your exhaustive answer, I appreciate it. Very helpful!

37 minutes ago, beewee said:

Assuming you have the EN-EL15c

It's a EN-EL15b

 

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39 minutes ago, beewee said:

Also, more advanced chargers will check the battery temperature before and during charging and depending on the temperature of the cells, it may limit the charge rate or stop charging if the cell is too cold or too warm. As batteries age, they have more internal resistance so they will also warm up more when they are charged/discharged so those older batteries may also take longer to charge.

That's a good point!

39 minutes ago, beewee said:

Taking all this into account 2hrs to go from 41-68% seems a bit slow but without knowing the state of the batteries, battery/ambient temperature, etc.. it’s hard to make a clear judgement.

My batteries are super new, a few weeks old. But it's a Nikon B type, so maybe not too slow.

47 minutes ago, beewee said:

The only time a charger (and cable) may matter would be for more advanced USB-C devices that uses the USB-C Power Delivery (PD) standards which is a kludge of different charging voltage/current standard that are poorly described by the USB consortium’s labeling standards. USB PD supports various charging voltages from 5v to 20v and up to a max of 2 to 3 amps but standard USB-C cables only support up to 2A. In order to charge at higher current, you’ll need a more beefy cable that has some electronics which tells the charger that it can support higher current

I see. So the powerful/fast ultimate power bank with a proper type beefy cable can charge almost everything. It would charge fast everything or just the more current product. For example, I have a JBL flip 5 speaker, which I have everywhere. It's USB-C. The battery lasts a lot, and it's fast to charge with the given standard JBL USB-c cable. If I use the ultimate kit 🙂 can I charge it faster? No battery degradation?
My point is that it's maybe good to have the most updated version of the PD charger, a couple of cables, and a power bank for everything. If you need to charge a bike light w/ USB 2.0, it works and doesn't need much energy. And with the same kit, charge an M11, for example, w/o any kind of degradation. 
The price for these devices and accessories is definitely accessible. Does it worth the investment for you? Or do I keep my colossal 20,000mha ADATA because it's just fine? 

 

47 minutes ago, beewee said:

It’s a total mess.

I can't agree more.

[beewee]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

So the powerful/fast ultimate power bank with a proper type beefy cable can charge almost everything. It would charge fast everything or just the more current product. For example, I have a JBL flip 5 speaker, which I have everywhere. It's USB-C. The battery lasts a lot, and it's fast to charge with the given standard JBL USB-c cable. If I use the ultimate kit 🙂 can I charge it faster? No battery degradation?
My point is that it's maybe good to have the most updated version of the PD charger, a couple of cables, and a power bank for everything. If you need to charge a bike light w/ USB 2.0, it works and doesn't need much energy. And with the same kit, charge an M11, for example, w/o any kind of degradation. 
The price for these devices and accessories is definitely accessible. Does it worth the investment for you? Or do I keep my colossal 20,000mha ADATA because it's just fine? 

Faster or more powerful charger does not guaranty faster charging since the limiting factor is often still on the device/battery side unless you’re talking about laptops which have much larger batteries and can accept more power. Take for example, an iPhone 13 that can accept 27 watt charging. Plugging it into 100 watt MacBook Pro charger will still only charge at 27 watts. Whereas plugging a MacBook Pro into an iPhone charger will limit it to 27 watts and chances are that the computer uses more than 27 watts which means the battery will not actually even charge. You’re just reducing the rate at which the laptop drains is battery.

As far as shopping for chargers go, unless you plan on charging laptops, there’s no need for chargers that can charge faster than 30 watts. Even the iPad Pro XDR only accepts up to 30 watts so anything more would be overkill. The only exception to this would be if you’re buying a multi-port USB-C PD charger and you intend on charging multiple devices that can take 30+ watts. For example, you want to change an iPhone (27 watt), iPad Pro (30 watt), and a MacBook Pro (100 watt) all at the same time. Now the three combined devices will take about 157 watts so you will benefit from such a charger. 

The other benefit of getting a “good” PD charger is that it will support many different voltage standards which include: 5v, 9v, 12v, 15v, 20v and 28v, 36v, 48v for the newest PD 3.1 chargers. Not all chargers support all voltages. For example, some cheaper chargers that come with a phone may only support 5v and 9v. Other tablet charger may support 5v and 15v. If your device requires 5v or 12v but you have a charger that only support 5v and 9v or 5v and 15v, then you’re stuck with charging at 5v, regardless of which charger you use. 

There’s a nice table of the various USB-PD standard voltages here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_power_delivery

Standard Power Range (SPR) implies the original USB-PD standards whereas Extended Power Range (EPR) implies USB PD 3.1 and requires an EPR compatible charging cable. And as if this is not confusing enough, charging current is also limited by the cable so you’ll need a cable that supports the voltage AND current if you have a device that can take that much amount of power and you want to be able charge at the maximum rate.

Edited January 15, 2022 by beewee

[beewee]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:16 PM, beewee said:

In my testing, there’s no advantage to use USB-C to USB-C versus USB-A to USB-C cable. The camera only supports standard 5v charging and does not support higher current (over 2A) charging. You’d experience less compatibility issues with a standard USB-A port on a power bank. If you must go with USB-C to USB-C, then you’ll want cables and charger from a reputable brand like ANKER, RAV Power, AUKEY, Mophie, Satechi, and Omnicharge.

Also, I noticed that the camera will only charge when powered off. When the camera is powered on, it will just decrease the rate at which it drains the battery.

I do you have an update on USB-C to USB-C charging vs USB-A to USB-C charging on the SL2-S. I noticed that some chargers (Omnicharge 20, specifically) actually have issues charging the SL2-S using USB-C to USB-C. From what I can tell, the SL2-S does not support USB-PD but seems to charge fine with USB-C to USB-C for a number of USB-C PD compatible wall chargers from Anker and RAV Power. However, when I use the same USB-C cable and charge the SL2-S with the Omnicharge 20, the camera will either not charged when powered off or actually lock up when powered on. The only way that I can charge the SL2-S with the Omnicharge 20 is using a USB-A to USB-C cable. Since the SL2-S only support 5v, 1Amp charging, there’s no benefit in using USB-C to USB-C w/ PD charging but it does mean that it’s generally safer to go with a USB-A to USB-C cable instead of a USB-C to USB-C cable in case your charger does some weird stuff with USB-PD in trying to negotiate a charging standard with the SL2-S and this process may cause the camera to crash.

Edited January 15, 2022 by beewee

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, beewee said:

I do you have an update on USB-C to USB-C charging vs USB-A to USB-C charging on the SL2-S. I noticed that some chargers (Omnicharge 20, specifically) actually have issues charging the SL2-S using USB-C to USB-C. From what I can tell, the SL2-S does not support USB-PD but seems to charge fine with USB-C to USB-C for a number of USB-C PD compatible wall chargers from Anker and RAV Power. However, when I use the same USB-C cable and charge the SL2-S with the Omnicharge 20, the camera will either not charged when powered off or actually lock up when powered on. The only way that I can charge the SL2-S with the Omnicharge 20 is using a USB-A to USB-C cable. Since the SL2-S only support 5v, 1Amp charging, there’s no benefit in using USB-C to USB-C w/ PD charging but it does mean that it’s generally safer to go with a USB-A to USB-C cable instead of a USB-C to USB-C cable in case your charger does some weird stuff with USB-PD in trying to negotiate a charging standard with the SL2-S and this process may cause the camera to crash.

Mr. Beewee, thank you so much for taking the time to explain it to me with actual words samples. Loved it and understood it!
I have good and bad news for me. Good? I have a much more accurate view of the scenarios and possibilities. I'm glad I found your kindness. Bad news? 😱 too many combinations, omg. It's overwhelming! But I'm willing to give it a try on the "on-the-way charging" mood and all package. The idea of camping for a few days and charging lights, camera batteries, and speakers with only one fully charge power bank or so, sounds terrific. But... but...
I will also look at options deeply because I need to define my goals and purpose.
P.s. I will be out next week for six days, shooting an assignment for a magazine, in a few desert/beaches fisherman towns in Baja California Sur, and I will bring the BRICK (Adata) and see what's happened.

 

[Dennis]

2 minutes ago, Dennis said:

P.s. I will be out next week for six days, shooting

The real problem is ... gear.. which to bring 🤣

Edited January 15, 2022 by Dennis

[aksclix]

I have this and it works fine for me.. I haven’t stress tested it or anything but the PB doesn’t drain easily.. used it for about 30mins I suppose.. I liked its form factor and could easily mount it on the hotshoe 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LB2BLKM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_205X9BA6EN7T5H1PCRAW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

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[caissa]

A Anker 26800 PD+ works perfectly for me in all possible cases (since two years). Cables and charging device are included, so no need to worry about anything. Also permitted on planes.

Price about 130$, but a newer version will/may come in Feb, so maybe the price will even drop.

Edited January 16, 2022 by caissa

[Virob]

18 hours ago, Dennis said:

P.s. I will be out next week for six days, shooting

f you plan on ever going off grid for an extended period of time, which doesn’t seem to be the case here, you might want to consider usb power banks that work with solar panels. Unless specified, most common power banks  will not accept a trickle charge. Goalzero Voltaic, Biolite are a few that are designed with solar in mind. I use the  water resistant goalzero venture with a  21W waterproof rollable solar panel for 2-3 week canoe trips with my Olympus gear. I’ve tested it with the SL2 and it works just as well.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Virob
Mis quoted

[Dennis]

31 minutes ago, Virob said:

f you plan on ever going off grid for an extended period of time, which doesn’t seem to be the case here, you might want to consider usb power banks that work with solar panels. Unless specified, most common power banks  will not accept a trickle charge. Goalzero Voltaic, Biolite are a few that are designed with solar in mind. I use the  water resistant goalzero venture with a  21W waterproof rollable solar panel for 2-3 week canoe trips with my Olympus gear. I’ve tested it with the SL2 and it works just as well.

Wow, this is next survival level 🙂 Not sure I would need this, but it sound great. Love the idea of not depending of outlet power. I will take a deep look at features and possible uses.

Thank you!